X-Message-Number: 10068 Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:46:45 -0400 From: Paul Wakfer <> Subject: Cryonicist/Cryobiologist Rift References: <> > Message #10066 > Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 09:56:07 -0400 > From: Thomas Donaldson <> > Subject: reply to Cryonet #10059-#10065 > > I generally dislike arguments about definitions. They > don't really advance our thinking, they just take up valuable time. It seems > to me that much of the discussion between Bob and Paul Wakfer is just that, > and I hope it does not continue. Although I hope so too, this discussion has *not* been about definitions, but about the fundamentally incorrect approach which cryonics leaders have taken in their dealings with scientists, especially cryobiologists. I believe that the rift with medical/biological scientists need not and should not have occured. The result of that rift has been almost 30 years of stagnation in cryonics related science research which is finally coming to an end because of activities initiated during the last few years. However, there is still enormous reactionary pressure within the cryonics community to continue the rift in thinking and talking which has cost us so dearly. > It looks to this observer that both Bob Ettinger and Paul Wakfer agree, > but do not want to admit their agreement. That you view it that way is unfortunate, since it implies that you (and many others too, I suspect) have missed the main point of the dispute which I stated clearly in one of my earlier posts: "It is never wise to start off ones arguments but rejecting and distorting the language of those who one is addressing" and hoping to persuade. It is *we* that need the help of the medical/biological science community. *They* do not need us (or at least they don't think they do). Since I became active in cryonics, it has been my goal to achieve rapproachment of cryonicists with cryobiologists and others in the medical/biological science community. This can only be achieved through a willingness to be considerate of their thinking about science without compromising our basic ideas. To the extent that we will not and do not do this, we continue the rift which I believe may well destroy us all. -- Paul -- Voice/Fax: 416-968-6291 Page: 800-805-2870 The Institute for Neural Cryobiology - http://neurocryo.org Perfected cryopreservation of Central Nervous System tissue for neuroscience research and medical repair of brain diseases Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10068