X-Message-Number: 10157
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:05:06 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: CryoNet #10148 - #10156

HI everyone!

To Bob: you think it obvious why we would not take a happiness drug.
I even agree with your dislike of such a decision, but that was not
what I was discussing. I do not find it obvious at all IF the aim of
our actions should be happiness (whatever happiness may be). Can you
please give me the logic by which it is obvious? I mean the LOGIC, here.
I even agree with you, as I've said, but I'm questioning your reasoning,
not your conclusion.

To Bob and others: I do not think "happiness" has any meaning as 
such (I'm referring to the word, guys). It provides no explanation of
why someone behaves as he/she does and no avenue towards such an
explanation. Let's consider our brain, a bit. There are various things
which give us pleasure, and we learn to feel pleasure at others. We
(most of us, but not all) also have various drives. But pleasure is
not the same as happiness, and there is no setup in our brain which
makes us seek "happiness" as such. The idea has other problems, too,
and I was trying to indicate one such problem with my suggestion about
a "happiness drug" (I'll point out that with no special center for
happiness, such a drug ultimately may prove impossible. Sure, drugs
which give pleasure exist in profusion, but not happiness). But if
you want only to argue with me, I'll point out that you aren't going
to be able to use the notion of a happiness drug for or against what
I say --- you are accepting what I say if you try that.

It's also obvious that our desires sometimes, even often, conflict. 
Some have suggested that may be a defect in our design; but it may 
run much deeper than that: it is rare that we can have all we want
of one thing without giving up something of another. This is called
economics, by some. And economics suggests that our conflicts do
not have to do with any special design faults but with the universe
itself.

			Best and long long life,

				Thomas Donaldson

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