X-Message-Number: 10423 Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 14:56:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Charles Platt <> Subject: ????????? What is going _on_ here? First Thomas Donaldson, and now Fred Chamberlain, apparently sharing this peculiar assumption that if I'm doubtful about current cryonics procedures, this must mean I have no use for them. Where have I ever said or implied anything of this sort? Thomas still refuses to quote the text of mine that gave him this idea, and Fred doesn't cite any reference either; so I remain baffled. Do I really need to say that even the most incompetently performed cryopreservation is preferable to burial or cremation? OF COURSE I want to be frozen using any means available, even if its chances of success are vanishingly small. The alternative gives me no choice at all. This is a no-brainer, right? (Literally.) I have expressed strong doubts about the viability of some cryopatients. But guess what--I may be wrong! Certainly I have never claimed to be 100-percent certain of anything in cryonics. Nor have I pointed to any case and said, "This person is definitely doomed." I am merely concerned (as any rational person should be) that our techniques may be inadequate and should be upgraded as urgently as possible. This is controversial? Let me try to summarize this, since the logic seems elusive to some readers. 1. I am a skeptic. Skepticism is essential in science. Without it, we risk involving ourselves in scientific embarrassments--such as Olga Visser. 2. As a skeptic, I suspect that some of the damage we do in some cases may be irreparable, at least within the bounds of imaginable technology on an imaginable budget. 3. Still as the president of CryoCare I am ethically, legally, and spiritually committed to freezing any of our members who dies, even if the circumstances are so terrible that I may doubt the possibility of future resuscitation. Again, my opinion _may be wrong._ And anyway I am guided by the requests of the cryonics members who have contracted with CryoCare. I am deeply committed to carry out their wishes. 4. I am also signed up to be frozen myself, in any way possible. This is not incompatible with statements 1 and 2. It simply means that I am willing to take whatever deal I can get--even if its chances may be close to zero under certain circumstances--while I hope that a better deal will come along. What is so mysterious about this? Thomas seems to feel entitled to throw all kinds of insults in my direction, such as "willful ignorance," still without the courtesy of explaining how he has reached these strong opinions. He knows very well that I am in regular contact with the people actually doing research which I believe is going to revolutionize cryonics. From this he might conclude that, in fact, I am better informed than most people-- possibly including Thomas himself. True, I have little interest in debating where the dividing line may lie between viable and nonviable cryopatients. I regard such discussions as a waste of time, because I cannot imagine any means by which we can resuscitate these patients within, say, the next two or three decades. Therefore, any discussion of their viability remains idle speculation. If you come up with some new evidence (such as a new model for the storage of memories in the brain), for some reason you seem to feel that this makes your speculation more useful. I disagree. Until any speculation can be tested in a laboratory, it is of little use to me. What do I consider NOT to be a waste of time? Wakfer's hippocampal slice project, for instance. It promises to yield data proving (as much as anything in science can be proven) whether a specific area of the brain will resume function. This is a long way from the kind of armchair speculation that I see here on CryoNet. Thomas, I have noticed that you enjoy participating in very lengthy discussions on just about any topic, from uploading to the nature of consciousness. Fine; that's your right. I have never criticized you for this, even though I have always considered it futile, and generally I don't bother to read posts on these topics. I suggest that if I am willing to tolerate and ignore your priorities, which seem odd to me, at the very least you should show me the same courtesy. --Charles Platt Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10423