X-Message-Number: 10447 From: "Scott Badger" <> Subject: Selling Cryonics Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 14:08:36 -0500 I, for one, applaud Jeff Davis' critical look at the marketing issues in cryonics. I don't agree with many of his suggestions while others I found to be very interesting. Allow me to paraphrase and respond to some of the replies as I understood them. Saul Kent suggested that a professional marketing effort will cost money that is sorely needed for research because people are not going to buy in significant numbers until we have a proven product anyway. Anyone that's followed Cryonet at all knew that Mr. Kent would say this. His opinion will continue to be strongly biased in the direction of research because that's what he's up to his neck in and I am cheering on the sidelines for his focus and his dedication. Charles Platt echoes the sentiment that there is little perceived value in the product. He then makes some very intelligent guesses as to why. Mr. Platt goes on to reassure us that although empirical marketing studies have not been done, trial-and-error has taught us volumes. Mr. Platt then offers the following admonisment concerning Mr. Davis' suggestions: >These manipulative techniques are designed to entice people against their >better judgment. Mr. Platt, please. Marketing is all about manipulating the beliefs and perceptions of people and few firms will be successful unless they resolve to alter the "better" judgments of those they target as potential customers. There's nothing unethical about this. Being manipulative certainly doesn't preclude providing "FULL disclosure and RATIONAL understanding". What do you mean by "better judgment", anyway? Are they better informed? Are they more rational? I also didn't understand the following exchange: >> Cryonics is not for everyone. Establish entry requirements. Make the >> candidates pass an exam. (Yes, it's a trick, but you have to help them get >> past their own defenses.) > >This I believe might be effective. Huh? What would a passing score be on such an exam, Mr. Platt (and Mr. Davis)? Private corporations may indeed turn away business from whomever they wish, but basing it on an exam? >> Exclude murderers, >> rapists, child-molesters, armaments manufacturers, politicians, tobacco >> company execs. Cryonics is not for everyone. > >This I find ethically unacceptable. In effect, you are suggesting that I >should condemn some people to death because I don't approve of them. Then how could you agree in the previous statement? Additionally, as Jim Halperin pointed out in The First Immortal, psychopathology may well be fully curable in the future, and to exclude people because they have a mental illness (e.g. anti-social personality, sexual deviancy, tobacco lobbying) is as unethical as excluding them for some other reason. On the issue of Cancer/Aids/etc. patients I agree that ambulance chasing is a bad idea. Still, so many of those with terminal diseases seek out Phillipino medicine men & witch doctors, crystal therapies and a host of other alternative procedures. Even the most rational, it appears, can lose their ability to critically examine the claims of charlatans when they are faced with certain death. Or, they'll volunteer to be subjects in the latest research efforts. They'll seek second, third, and fourth opinions from experts. The reason why is that even a small glimmer of hope can be magnified into a blinding light when death is at your door. And I don't know how others conceptualize it but, for me, this has always been the true *Product* that cryonics is selling . . . HOPE. I was attracted to cryonics because that hope seemed rationally based on current trends in science. Hope is about all that's left for cancer/aids/etc. victims, so why aren't they considering cryonics? I wouldn't be surprised if more witch doctors are being consulted than cryoncists. Is there no way to develop a dignified and respectful approach to educating this tragic population? Mr. Platt continues: >But I think you need some first-hand >experience in the selling, the signing, and the freezing process before >you realize just how difficult this situation is. I certainly had no >idea, till I became more involved. I understand and appreciate this point and believe you are absolutely correct. Those without experience are relatively ill-informed. Even so, a good marketing idea just might slip in if we welcome the debate. Steve Bridges agrees with the others about the lack of a viable product, then also comments that: >We offer something for sale that we don't have (suspended animation and a >chance at the future) to tens of millions of people who barely care >whether they live through next week. Even if we HAD such a prize to offer >for sale, most of them wouldn't buy. And most of the people who *want* >such a product can see that we don't have it to sell. Huh? Cryonics is being marketed to millions who are ambivalent about life? Now that's poor marketing. And does Mr. Kent know that even when we perfect suspended animation. most of the people won't buy anyway? >And Saul or the rest of us should spend our incomes on doing a marketing >survey before we spend it seeing if a product is possible? Why don't YOU >do the survey then? > He doesn't have to. I'm already conducting a pilot survey with around 235 responses so far. Best to all, Scott Badger Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10447