X-Message-Number: 10591 Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:11:27 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #10580 - #10588 Hi guys! I seem to have gotten myself into bad odor with some people by saying this, but here I go again. NANOTECHNOLOGY ALONE IS NOT ENOUGH. We're also going to have to understand much better how brains work. Why? Because if we do so we will know what information to look for if we want to repair someone, versus all the extraneous information which tells us nothing at all. And it could easily turn out (not that I think this happens, as I remain a cryonicist) that the freezing process destroys ALL of our memory... not just in a superficial way, but so that no process can work out what it was afterwards. Paeans to nanotechnology do not help anything if they sit there alone. Anyone who wants to propose repair by means of some form of nanotechnology must also pay close attention to what happens in brains, especially due to cryopreservation but in other cases too. Otherwise, to be figurative, they are standing on only one leg when they really need two, and that one leg ends at an STM point: very unstable, and bound to fall over into the mud. And as a side issue, I will point out a few simple truths: our memory apparently shows itself in the connectivity of our nervous system. We operate like neural nets, though not like any neural net computer scientists have yet studied closely (our brain grows new connections as part of learning something). Second, the scale of that connectivity is much larger than molecular. The ability to repair any number of damaged molecules (not that molecular damage seems to be a consequence of cryopreservation) tells us ZERO about the ability to recover connectivity. Finally, large numbers of our neurons apparently play no direct role in memory storage (they may modulate it, recall it, work with it --- all very important. But they aren't involved in storing it). And for Charles Platt: Yes, so far we have not found or made enzymes to fix freezing damage. However it may interest you to know that an active biochemistry RIGHT NOW is engaged in devising and USING enzymes which work well below freezing, in nonwater solvents... such as ammonia. You should be able to find the references to this if you look through the issues of PERIASTRON which I was sending you in exchange for CRYOCARE REPORT. Although I have no problem at all with nanotechnology, which in some form will probably become involved in our repair (if we're frozen before any systems for vitrification are developed, at least), the abilities of ANY kind of nanotechnology simply are NOT sufficient to show that repair will be possible. My problem is with those who seem to think that nanotechnology IS sufficient. And if anyone on Cryonet is really listening to this message, you can write to me and I'll send you a good reading list on how brains work, together with some other material relating this to cryonics. For that matter, you might even subscribe to PERIASTRON, and slowly get it by osmosis, as it were. Best and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=10591