X-Message-Number: 11248
From: "Thomas Nord" <>
Subject: Location temptation
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:51:09 -0000

This was posted by John de Rivaz some time ago and I agree.

>Subject: Re: Reward. Wanted. Housing-location.
>Date: Sun, 17 Jan 99 11:34:50
>Contents:
>In article: <77rpe9$bak$>  "Thomas Nord"
><> writes:
>> Most of them can move to US if they will.
>
>How wise is it concentrating cryonicists in a single jurisdiction?
>
>A few hundred cryonicists (especially Alcor ones) will represent a lot of
>money in trusts or life policies or whatever, and an enterprising lawyer,
>and/or politician and/or public official could scoff the lot.
>
>If alternatively they are spread out in many jurisdictions, then the
>enterprising lawyer or politician would have to work very hard to get each
>one, and hopefully would not bother.
>
>Even a Alcor suspension fund is small fry for people with the social
>standing to cream off top whack in hourly rates. It would probably take
more
>than 100hrs of work to get the funds, even then the chances of success are
>by no means certain. The official would actually make more money by doing
>something else.
>
>In the case of a concentration, and using a class action, then the work
>would not be much more, but the potential reward much higher. [eg the class
>could be people would would otherwise inherit.]

This can probably only happen in US. Even if a good place is found for
immigration of Cryonicists, people tend to spread out anyway. A lot is in Ca
and Az but spread out. Is that the same jurisdiction? If I recall correctly
courts are lowest in citys or countydistricts in US, then supreme statewise
etc. I guess many of us now live in Maricopa county. Funds better be spread
anyway. The idea is to find a place tempting to attract more folks to
Cryonics. Alcor may have found the best, I'm trying that migration now.
Study further after this mail:

"It seems that just about everything in the desert scratches, stabs, or
bites. We do have numerous poisonous creatures, but they aren't too much
bother. Potentially the worst are the many varieties of rattlesnakes we
have. I do lots of long distance running on desert trails and have only seen
rattlers a couple of times. They tend to curl up and rattle their tails.
They were otherwise passive and just wanted to be left alone. They will
strike if approached. Statistically, the person most likely to be bitten is
a white male, 21 years old, and intoxicated. It must be a macho ritual I'll
never partake of...getting drunk and trying to kiss a rattlesnake. Our next
door neighbors had a rattler on their front porch and had Animal Control
remove it. I've seen a couple others sunning themselves across the sidewalks
in the neighborhood.

There is the Arizona coral snake which is poisonous. He is very reclusive
and quite small. Even though he is poisonous, his mouth is so small that he
would only be able to bite you between the fingers where the skin webs.

There is a large lizard called the Gila Monster which is poisonous. He is
also reclusive and very slow moving. He is also an endangered specie, so you
rarely see them (I only have seen them in zoos and collections). They say
you have to want to get bitten by him to achieve same. The problem with them
is that they bite down and won't let go and often have to be beheaded to
remove them.

There are several varieties of scorpions around. Our home warming went like
this: we moved into our new home about 3 years ago. We went out onto the
back patio after having labored all day for the move, and marvelled at the
clear stary sky. We turned around to go back in the house and a 4 inch red
hairy scorpion scuttled across the patio in front of us. Actually, though
they are the biggest scorpion, they are also the least poisonous...something
akin to a bee sting. There is a little one called the bark scorpion, though,
that can be dangerous, especially to very young and very old folks. We have
seen them in our house twice. We shake our shoes out before putting them on
just for good measure. I have acquaintances who have been stung by bark
scorpions, and they said the afflicted limb was numb and achy for several
days.

We have a couple of spiders that are poisonous including the black widow and
the desert brown spider. I have seen black widows in our water valve boxes
outside but not in the house.

Overall, I don't worry too much about the Arizona fawna, toxic or not. We
lived in Alaska for 23 years and have camped among grizzly bears, so the
creatures here seem tame. My wife has had close encounters with javalina (a
wild cousin to pigs) a couple of times as have I on my early morning runs.
They startle you, but back away. We also have a pack of coyotes that sing to
us at night and we see once a week or so or have them tag along while
running. We live next to the Tonto National Forest (where the trees are
mostly saguaro cactus) and the Usury Mountain State Park, so we are more
likely to see wildlife. The closer to the middle of the cities you live, the
less you see. However, even downtown they find snakes now and then."

As I answered:
Thanks very much, its useful. Las Vegas homepage has almost the same. None
in Az except in the poison central.
We are not used to so many lethal ones in Western Europe even in the warmest
places. Here its only one lethal snake hard to find.
We are all getting old, may have children and do mistakes even in prime age.
I dont like this but it seems hard to find a less risky place with no snow
and ice in US. Ideas?
On the other hand people die of cold here, getting cold or staying indoors
to much as we now have had snow and ice a long time, some -10C in daytime, I
dont go out if I musnt. But southern EU have almost never any snow and never
ice.
Az's well populated areas are also very hot, warm and hot places seem to
have it hard to get fresh tapwater out in US, dont know how it is in the
north there or in the south EU here, just know south of Spain has a
waterproblem sometimes but they stopped using so much chlorine years ago
where I lived so we cant taste it."

The idea is to tempt outsiders to US in the first place, to prevent logistic
worries about the end as its easier to be within to start with. After
finding a tempting place and getting used to US, then its a choice to go on
further within. I remember one who moved out from Az but still remains with
Alcor, so very nearness doesnt seem to have to be priority one. So far I've
looked into Ca Az Nv Ha Michigan Australia and Europe.
Any better ideas?
Old folks with money to cash in sooner, are hard to move unless a good
temptation. We better be tempted to US, or you there tempted to move on out.
Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.

Mvh/Sincerely Long Life
Thomas Nord
Stockholm (Sweden)
Hemsidor/Homepages:
http://user.tninet.se/~rqt138d/
http://members.tripod.co.uk/RWnovhoi/index.html
http://expage.com/page/cryonics

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