X-Message-Number: 11524
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: reply to Mike Perry: more on computers and their poetry
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1999 23:25:12 +1000 (EST)

To Mike Perry:

Not really, though the distinction IS subtle. I am raising the issue of
MEANING. It's true that WE can give meaning to things, and would be
likely to give meaning to anything which looks like poetry. The important
point is that it had no meaning to the machine which wrote it, and
basically was put together using some set of rules thought up by the
original programmer.

If a tape recorder plays music, it may well be music but the tape recorder
did not create it, nor does it have any meaning to the tape recorder. If
the tape recorder is a computer instead, with much more complex
construction, then the same situation exists. If there is anyone who is 
really responsible for the music or the poetry, it is the designer of the
program which the computer runs and the engineer who built the computer.

I will also add, because it is important, that it looks quite unlikely 
that a computer could be made and programmed to produce very good poetry.
(Yes, it is much easier to program a computer to produce POETRY. As I 
understand it has even been done). The reason for this comes from the
structure of our brain compared to that of a computer: behind all our
thoughts like special neural nets combined with other circuitry which
gives us our feelings. Our own use of language comes not from any 
circular definitions of symbols, but from personal experiences to which
we learn to give names. This comes from our internal perceptions, not
just our external perceptions. 

Finally, I will point out that there is nothing in physics or biology
which says that we could not make machines which were aware and quite
able to write their own poetry. I am saying that this does not work with
any arbitrary computer. Give a computer both real feelings and real
perceptions and you can start to get one which can write real poetry.

			Best and long long life,

				Thomas Donaldson

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