X-Message-Number: 11535 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: more on emulation versus reality; we are not so unreadable any more Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 22:55:47 +1000 (EST) Hi again! As expected, this is for Mike Perry again: Well, I hope this does not bore too many on Cryonet! I will add that this discussion actually goes to the heart of what at least some people believe about cryonics: that we will awaken as emulations of ourselves in computers, rather than as flesh-and-blood creatures, AND that as emulations we will have far more opportunities for new experiences and new pleasures than any non-emulated creature. Those who do not believe this may also be interested, since it discusses the arguments against this thesis. In any case: in any practical sense, the "unresolvable issues" do not exist. Even now we can read off from a cooperative subjects brain a very rough idea of what they are thinking and feeling. Several different means to do this exist, such as MRI and others. Someone who is the subject of such a study can always maintain that he was thinking and feeling something entirely different, and in a PHILOSOPHICAL sense that may be so --- but with everything we now know, his arguments would be pretty damn thin. In this sense the idea that no one can really tell what you are thinking and/or feeling is simply false. It's still true that they can't tell just what your thoughts or feelings feel like TO YOU, but that also comes close to a meaningless question. If I am unhappy is my unhappiness the same feeling as your unhappiness, or do you, when unhappy, by some different circuits feel what I would feel if I felt joyful? Clearly in my terms you would then want to seek unhappiness and avoid joy, but since the brain areas activated in you are likely to be the same as in me, just what this might mean comes close to NOTHING. As I've said in my previous postings, it may or may not be possible to emulate a human being in a nonbiological form. At the simplest level, the neural net circuits which human beings have would have to be emulated by those of the new form, and those circuits involve constant growth and destruction of connections on a large scale ... and moreover that growth and destruction does not match ie. there is no fixed number of active connections. I doubt that such neural nets could be made from off-the-shelf components. Our brains, of course, show that such neural nets can be made. Best and long long life to all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=11535