X-Message-Number: 12031 From: Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 21:33:47 EDT Subject: 3 Brief Replies & 1 Short Comment 1. Mr Robin Hanson wrote: <> True enough. But it's not a matter of facing a huge challenge, but of going out and grappling with it. Problems have solutions, and we can always start somewhere. Why not with ourselves? It's not hard to truthfully say to people, "Cryonics could save the lives of millions of men, women, and children." It certainly sounds better than "I don't want to die!", and a good cry is half the battle. Recruiting people to a good cause isn't hard. The fact is, caring people exist. There are people -- lots and lots of them -- who actively want to help others and save lives, and give their own lives some meaning in the process. What's wrong with cryonics as one way to do that -- maybe the best way? Nothing -- except the fact that it's never presented to them that way. We ought to try it. To catch a mouse, you have to make a noise like a cheese. 2. In a curious post to sci.cryonics, Mr Charles Platt wrote: <<It has been pointed out to me that Mr. "Pascal" is surprisingly well informed about cryonics. He presents himself as a relative newcomer to the field; yet he has read Fahy's testimony in the Dora Kent case,>> Easily available in toto at www.cryonics.org (along with a great deal else). << he understands at least the basics of ischemia, >> Public Library, medical section <<he is familiar with Saul Kent's role in cryonics currently and previously (and dislikes Mr. Kent),>> Good grief, where did Platt come up with that one? I think the world of Saul Kent! He's a prince! How in the world can anybody study cryonics without being aware of Saul's contributions? OK, I think that his current views on how to market cryonics are not terribly edifying, but you can certainly disagree with a person on some one point without detesting the guy. Saul Kent is great! <<he is familiar with Alcor publications even though supposedly he belongs to a different organization,>> Alcor's magnum opus, CRFT, is available online, plus it has a quarterly magazine out. And I belong to CI, no 'supposedly' about it. (Are there really closet Alcor members running around pretending to be CI ones?.) <<and he has developed fully formed opinions about everything.>> Not so. I have not yet fully decided whether I prefer polka-dot underwear to the floral-bouquet pattern versions. <<it took me a couple of years to acquire this kind of detailed knowledge of cryonics-- Most revealing of all is Mr. "Pascal"'s surprisingly detailed knowledge of cryonics history. For example, I mentioned an insurance agent who tried to market cryonics "before I entered the field." In his reply to my post, Mr. "Pascal" introduced the fact that the agent was active more than two decades ago. I myself did not say this; "Pascal" did.>> Actually, "I" believe I said that the fellow was active 'one or two' decades ago. A ten year span there, you'll notice. See, I knew that Charles has been involved with cryonics for about ten years since he said so in an Alcor article I read. Since 'more than ten years' means 'one or two decades' (I deftly assumed the salesman had not been marketing cryonics earlier, during the Boer War, say), I deduced I had the right to phrase it as I did. Elementary, my dear Plattson. In doing so, I may have seemed to be more knowledgeable than I am. -- Would that I were the only person in cryonics of whom that may be said. <<Only a tiny handful of cryonics veterans know this particular piece of cryo-trivia. Therefore I have to conclude that Mr. "Pascal" is not being straight with us and may, alas, be the reincarnation of a well-known former net troll, clawing his way back from the state of suspended animation that was imposed upon him a couple of years ago when his former cryonics organization became terminally irritated by his provocations.>> Sorry. I exist. Furthermore, I am also me. I even look like the picture on my web site (well, a little uglier maybe; it's a good photo). I am kind of loath to put my actual home address out on the Internet, lest the legion of strange people that infest it turn up at my door. However - since I really am a member of what I believe to be the most significant organization in cryonics, ie CI -- interested readers wishing to confirm my identity could probably do so by making a check out to 'David Pascal' and sending it care of The Cryonics Institute, my provider. I note that filling in a really large amount will produce a correspondingly big conviction after I cash it. (Yes. I am joking.) <> Mr Platt's resolution was all too brief, for he responded to some other remarks I had made the very same day. I'm a bit pressed for time however (see below) so I'll get to it some other day. 3. Mr Saul Kent -- whom I revere -- wrote: << Over the years, I've been disappointed that salesmen with good track records in other fields have been unsuccessful in selling cryonics, and that others with strong ideas about how to sell cryonics haven't tried to do so.>> To Saul I would say this. Look. You're in the vitamin business, right? You've done well, I take it. Now I'd wager you didn't do that by writing front-page articles called "The Failure Of Vitamin Therapy" and putting them in major health journals. Nor did you go onto newsgroups and mailing lists and say, "You know, everyone, a lot of doctors and scientists think vitamins are really pretty useless." You didn't tell folks, "Vitamins are a bad product. What we really need is to put our money into research, for however many years it takes, till we come up with a vitamin that's unarguably and absolutely 100% effective." What you did was go out and say -- very wisely, and in complete truth -- that a number of respected doctors and scientists felt that vitamins are worth taking, that some studies seem to bear out the idea that vitamin-taking may be good for the body, and that they were affordable and really couldn't hurt, provided people used them with a little common sense. Then you went out and got someone to write a catalog of your products, hired some people to place ads, probably did some Direct Mail stuff, and so on. The result of this good active marketing effort was good active marketing results. There isn't any big surprise about this. But with cryonics, it's a 180 degree turn. Cryonics marketing seems to consist of people sitting around chewing the fat about quanta, until some one lone salesman decides he's going to go out and sell suspensions door-to-door. Of course, selling tried-and-true stuff like Life Insurance is quicker and easier and more profitable, so -- after a while this fleeting attempt peters out, till a few years pass, and another half-hearted amateur attempt is tried. Well, what can I say? Poor planning, poor funding, no staff, no media -- it's weak, underfunded, sporadic marketing, and just as the good marketing above got good results, bad marketing like this gets bad results. Now, I don't think looking to get money for research is a bad thing at all. But how does calling cryonics a 'bad product' help anyone do that? People in cryonics -- maybe it's because of their academic background, I don't know -- seem to think that getting funds is like competing for a grant: The Foundation's only got so much to disemburse, so getting that money means you've got to elbow every other contestant or department out the way. But it's not like that in the real world. You know, in your place, I'd skip cryonics totally and just go with straight Direct Mail. Every morning I open my mailbox, and there sit five or six letters asking me for money to stop diabetes, cancer, hunger in Kosovo, etc. I read them, and if the cause sounds good, I send in a few dollars. If I got a letter from an organization asking for funds to help fund research for organ preservation, cornea transplants, hypothermic surgery, ischemia prevention, I'd certainly consider sending along a few bucks. I certainly never sent anyone money for telling me cryonics or any other '-ics' that *didn't* work. The DM approach (and a good list, of course) has gotten money thousands of times over, from people who have no interest in cryonics at all -- ie a target market of hundreds of millions. Why not do what works? And finally, I myself write : Listen, everyone - as some of you out there may know, my hard disk bit the dust some days ago. Hence my files, particularly recent email, have experienced warm ischemia. Science is leaping to the rescue, trying to resurrect some of the data at the local computer shop. But, if anyone reading this has sent me email in the last few days, there is a real good chance it's fritzed out and I haven't gotten it. Try again, OK? David Pascal www.cryonics.org www.davidpascal.com Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=12031