X-Message-Number: 12492 Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 23:09:49 -0700 From: Olaf Henny <> Subject: Maybe Cryonics Can Be Proven Soon Mike Darwin wrote in Message #12478 >I've come to realize that science rests almost completely on the very solid >fact that you cannot disprove a negative, and, as a consequence, you >concentrate on what you can "prove" (i.e., get definitive feedback from). >Cryonics, when you get right down to it, rests on the assumption that you >can't PROVE it won't work. and: >And the problem is THERE IS NO WAY TO VALIDATE IT IN ANY MEANINGFUL TIME >FRAME! Thus, in any given case, practically up to the point of the person >being reduced to ash, somebody, somewhere will come up with some reasonably >credible scenario for how to fix cryopatients and "save their lives." That >is RELIGION not science. And that's OK. Healthy even! Just call it what it >is and don't fool yourself or others into believing otherwise. I don't quite understand the problem. Even though our idea of how memory is stored is still very sketchy, if by the mechanics of the brain structure or as Mike suspects as "a painting on a soap bubble", that does not necessarily prevent us from finding out if it can endure past cryonic suspension. If and when the researchers 21stCM attain a level of confidence, that cooling rates and vitrification should be sufficient, they could take a dog, which has learned some simple tricks, down to liquid nitrogen temperatures and try to revive it almost immediately. Surely such an experiment should be possible within a few years or a decade at the most if my grasp of 21stCM's research is anywhere close to reality. Now if this dog comes up dead or as a complete vegetable, it is back to the drawing board. However, if it can after a reasonable recovery period walk and/or wag its tail, then we would have an enormously encouraging result. If the dog can remember the simple tricks, then the principle of cryonics has been proven possible and it can reasonably be assumed to work for you and me, providing, that we can be preserved under similar ideal conditions and at similar cooling/re-warming rates as achieved for the dog. If it will work for us under the conditions, which we will actually encounter, is of course a whole different story, but for that I would have enough confidence in the repair capabilities of future science to make up for the difference. Best, Olaf Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=12492