X-Message-Number: 12992 From: Keith Rene Dugue <> Subject: The Death Advantage Fallacy (DAF) Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:31:42 -0800 Dr Ettinger wrote in Message #12766 "The psychology of death has many strange elements. For example, many people actually make decisions based on "what (s)he would have wanted." Obviously, nothing you do or don't do matters in the least to someone who is buried and decayed and non-existent. "Loyalty" to a destroyed person is just a neurosis or a means of maintaining your own illusions, living in make-believe." Even from cryonicists I sometimes hear that they would rather die than continue to live if presented with interminable suffering. I call this the Death Advantage Fallacy or (DAF). It is the fallacious argument that one can gain any advantage by one's own death. Death as used in the above sentence is not clinical death but the permanent destruction of one's identity such that it can not be recovered by any technology. This is equivalent to permanent nonexistence. There can be no death advantage simply because once one does not exist one can no longer appreciate the purported advantage. Moreover ,one can not even appreciate that there is a difference. In fact, one can not appreciate anything at all. For example, if one claims that death will end one's suffering one is claiming that nonexistence is equivalent to a mental state free of suffering. This can not be true because it is impossible to determine the state of that which does not exist. Therefore, it is impossible to say whether the nonexistent are suffering or not. So one would ,in fact at best , be comparing a state of suffering to an indeterminable state. These two thing are incomparable. So, to state that one would be free from suffering or even that one would be suffering less after death is complete nonsense. One's nonexistence precludes it. To claim that one escapes suffering through death is like claiming that one was happier 200 hundred years ago than one is today. There are two unstated premises in the argument for escaping suffering through death. They are ,one that an afterlife exists and two that this after life is one without equivalent suffering. No evidence has ever been shown that supports these premises and as such must remain mere assertions. By afterlife ,it is meant that one has some form of consciousness and memory. I suspect that at the heart of the DAF is a meme at work. The DAF ,like loyalty to the non-existent, is also a neurosis. Happy holidays, Keith R. Dugu NO SPAM -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: PGPfreeware 5.5.5 for non-commercial use <http://www.nai.com> Comment: !!! PLEASE STORE THIS FILE ENCRYPTED !!! mQGiBDRzwM0RBADWaGAFUCBGtlJv4CNvFaW7UlIkchbzZf/CiiXGJvFk0B9jTSEt OwsvzHL1/4SDEa40+M7rdYPtaxwFgY4OFGLKrNw/KTO6QfHmEZzOGzAjE5QfyvL9 wwmPhtQNogoOx+yau0GIy60Ia+/nuB2eDqBvWoB669wREQ8fAJrCBWaFPwCg/8uk wCRSQwDraa+s0pk/UOsn4ZsEAK9KGLmj7Orif1kvQmuPHlgmr7zCQN7GwPk5mWvd /jfQDne5xrqV0k9H1nVxIKCavE1ManAP8T4ntMnnC6t/STZd29vxmVwCbkHi9VcZ zOOsNcRGka2JrlfCyJxGSK3Ri9tIFztYvA831yc0DoxEetlHeeXdcdorTJ6NVfyj LJtoA/49kkpjfBHPJbWZlZsecoMKkqTW3pHjjCdqjRrHuliDW/udbmsRrI2Dssey RimzKaXh9vGTMw4B/wn2eSepEoUK4NbbryrTtER/yjTerfEJcwrtnNYrz4P4NTmw SK2bpl8IkDfm89v8nc1vTCRDp6i55zOBmMk0WzPQ2tRBMoGDwbQuS2VpdGggUmVu ZSBEdWd1ZSA8S2VpdGguZHVndWVAaW50ZXJuZXRtY2kuY29tPokASwQQEQIACwUC NHPAzQQLAwECAAoJENGRwPTtyPGdqKUAnjX0DMUy1tMRr5QXCpNJ5MMQyP5OAJsF edwdOX4CY1wCyTeipYdR+bBBFLkBDQQ0c8DREAQA+s/8VIndRqKas4sk8vakyZ+X V74bVxnKFPgy9AdN2gxkjLH5b6vlqIu4wGjC02jHtlgyysOBYCHcGSjv8T1N6N2U K8ogfGUmDi0NfKfNeV0HT4xNDAFfM7E29KORHB46s/m13gtxoXy5NNivaf08o4u2 v2Ee9gXOoKGamLQcJOcAAgIEAKZWY8kNQF9nm1xrs3vbHXmYOUzvKG8v3qYwWEn2 LtG+vBKp+2xyheDoDd5lPrUSzsw8Dx1Yw5Uk8CGuN8RR1iiRUygw3lIa7tsIxdbW 1zE3zPlTeMdmoVydu7IAujU/VwLtT5OJ7iusUsiLXyydfnyzawA/s/r21uzf5Nn+ FXwDiQA/AwUYNHPA0dGRwPTtyPGdEQKx8wCfRftqaKhhxhron/r8m9yJTrITXugA oImOMLOVWjuAiz+24T/NNtBPtCCX =JwJm -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=12992