X-Message-Number: 13697 Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 07:52:27 -0600 From: Fred Chamberlain <> Subject: Can I kill the original? (Response) >From: "Fred Chamberlain" <> >References: <> >Subject: Re: Can I kill the original? Answering Scott Badger's comment on John Grigg's (below): >>John Grigg wrote: >> >>The question is, will science one day be so advanced that they can upload my >>we want ourselves. And we don't want to chance getting a copy(while we are >>dead) that actually thinks it's us! I envision some sort of super-advanced >>_Star Trek_ style "transporter beam" that transfers me into the new form, >>and can even return me to my old one, and without any loss of information, >>energy or matter. Will that ever be possible? >Me: > >The transporter doesn't solve the problem. The way I view it, every time >someone transports, they are killed at the point that they are disassembled. >An exact copy is apparently created somewhere else. Since it behaves >exactly like the original, no one else is alarmed and since the original is >dead, there's no one to complain. Kirk died a thousand deaths. > >But if we stay in our original form to avoid the copy dilemma, how long >could we survive with our organic brains? How far could we really evolve? As >has been mentioned by Fred C., we'd soon fall far behind those who do >upload. I don't know the solution. Wish I did though. > >Scott Badger Fred: With the passage of every moment, astronomical numbers of synaptic states are modified, by natural processes obeying the laws of causality. We experience this as consciousness, but in effect we are a dynamic process, which is only arrested if we are obliterated or if these processes are brought to a pause by solid state hypothermia (Alcor's original name was the "Alcor Society for Solid State Hypothermia", when it was incorporated in 1972.) If a copy of one of us were made and then placed in "run" five minutes from now, that copy would be more the "who we were" at the moment of copy, than the modified version. Which is "you"? We take death badly because it amounts to a cessation of "who we are" on an absolute basis, barring some mechanism of identity survival which has not yet been agreed to exist by the world of science. In our struggle to circumvent death, we become very different people than we were when we first entertained the notion that such circumventing might be possible. We accept a future in which we may change so much that we may relate to who we are now no more than we now relate to the shred of tissue from which we sprang, a few days after conception. Yet, that shred of tissue could have become an identical twin with whom we might feel more commonality than any other blood relative we have, given the time to get to know that person and share experiences with him or her. Identity will take on new dimensions as we virtually evolve ourselves in a multitude of directions. Transhumanism will not merely be a coordinated upgrading of all of us in a uniform manner. It will be an explosion of variation which will dwarf the scope of biological evolution, both in structure and in rapidity of development. This is going to be "speciation" on a cosmic scale. Kevin Brown, many years ago, wrote a thing about computer symbiotes which stirred the imaginations of some, and the fears of others. It is probably time for it to be republished, although Kevin says it still remains as one of CryoNet's earliest archives. All I recall at this moment was one response which said, "Stay away from me with your scalpels and soldering irons; I'll fight to the death!" And as Scott Badger points out, death may be the alternative, or a state of existence of such a low level by comparison that those who evolve will appear to have become "advanced aliens". As an afterthought, if you're not already planning to be at the Alcor Conference this June, you might consider it. A lot of talk about these things will probably take place (see http://www.alcor.org/conf.htm). Even more of this kind of thinking may emerge at the upcoming Foresight Institute Senior Associates meeting. For more details on that, go to: Spring Foresight/IMM Senior Associate Gathering May 19 evening - May 21, 2000 Palo Alto, California <http://www.foresight.org/srassoc/spring2000>http://www.foresight.org/srass oc/spring2000 Whatever you do, keep on walking and breathing. Thinking's not a bad idea, either! Boundless Life, Fred Chamberlain, President/CEO () Alcor Life Extension Foundation Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972. 7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916 Phone (602) 922-9013 (800) 367-2228 FAX (602) 922-9027 for general requests <http://www.alcor.org/>http://www.alcor.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=13697