X-Message-Number: 13823 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:01:27 -0600 From: Fred Chamberlain <> Subject: Re: Pricing; Additional Comments From: "Fred Chamberlain" <> Subject: Re: Pricing; Additional Comment Follow-up to Steve Bridge's Posting: (Part of email to which Steve replied) >>"Second: The actual operations involved in getting the patient into cryostasis >>are about $33,000. Whole body patients provide $120,000 in funding >>(about $70,000 goes into the Patient Care Trust). Neuro patients provide $50,000 >>in funding (about $17,000 goes into the Patient Care Trust)." >>Hey, did I miss something? I thought the neuros needed more research etc, or >>do they need a lot less due to the slimmer chances? Steve's reply: >Slimmer chances? That is a big assumption. It may in fact be MORE >difficult and expensive to repair and to make young every cell in the aged, >cancer-ridden, broken down bodies that many patients will take into the >suspension tank. Simpler, perhaps, to concentrate on the brain repair and >regrow a fresh body for the patient, probably regrowing the entire body >around the repaired brain. We don't know the answer, actually. My guess >is that the costs may turn out to be similarly inexpensive per unit -- once the >initial incredibly expensive research and planning are done. >The pricing factor for what goes into the Alcor Patient Trust is primarily >based on liquid nitrogen use. We can fit 4 whole body patients into one >Bigfoot storage dewar; but the same unit can hold up to *40* neuropatients. >In a full tank, a neuropatient only uses 10% of the nitrogen that a whole >body patient does. Based on LN2 alone, we could place only $7,000 in the >Trust for each neuropatient; but of course, it isn't that simple. >Administrative costs for all patients are the same, and all will need >repair and rehabilitation. We also encourage all members to OVERfund >their suspensions so we can place even more into the Trust as a cushion. >I have double funding myself. For a longer discussion on neurosuspension >that I wrote several years ago, please see: ><http://www.alcor.org/neuro.txt>http://www.alcor.org/neuro.txt >Steve Bridge >Alcor Foundation Director Right now, a technical seminar is in progress at Alcor, sponsored financially by BioTransport, Inc., in which the participants include the most knowledgeable and medically qualified people in Alcor, as well as representatives of both 21st Century Medicine, Inc. and Critical Care Research, Inc. One of the tradeoffs being discussed concerns doing neuros at "whole body" prices so that an almost perfect state of vitrification can be achieved. The higher level of funding required would in some respects be brought about by very high rate cooling to get the benefits of freeze blockers and advanced cryoprotectants which will not work well unless those rates are achieved. Other cost-drivers are the needs to store in the temperature range of -130 to -140 Celsius, with high reliability. So, already the better chances of survival would go to those who could afford the higher cost neuro option. As part of this discussion, rather than referring to neuro vs. whole body, the language has begun to take the form of referring to "neuro" vs. "non-neuro". It is possible to apply these advanced cryoprotection schemes to non-neuros (whole body patients) also, but only at far greater expense, and probably with some compromise to brain preservation. Bear in mind that these are only preliminary discussions. Bear in mind also that the upgrades for neuros, on a preliminary basis, may be in place for Alcor suspensions within the next few months, including provisions for the intermediate temperature storage, using a commercially available temperature controlled freezer with LN2 backup which can only accommodate six neuros. What it would take to implement this for non-neuros is still in the earliest study stages. Technology does not stand still, and neither do costs. Fred Chamberlain, President/CEO () Alcor Life Extension Foundation Non-profit cryonic suspension services since 1972. 7895 E. Acoma Dr., Suite 110, Scottsdale AZ 85260-6916 Phone (602) 922-9013 (800) 367-2228 FAX (602) 922-9027 for general requests <http://www.alcor.org/>http://www.alcor.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=13823