X-Message-Number: 14104 Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:50:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Badger <> Subject: Re: introduction and Re: Bringing Back the Dead From: Ruthanna R Gordon > I'm finally delurking, partially to correct a > misconception, but mostly because it seems silly to > lurk around people who I hope will be the familiar > faces at the beginning of my second lifetime. > My name is Ruthanna Gordon. I'm a graduate > researcher in Cognitive Psychology. I study > memory-- Welcome Ruthanna. It's good to have another psychologist-type aboard. > I'm also one of the near-invisible minority of > religious cryonicists. Specifically, I'm > Judeo-Pagan, with the Pagan half of that leaning > heavily towards Wicca. > > Scott Badger said: > >> "Respectfully submitted," precisely because I >> wanted to emphasize my belief that everyone's >> right to their opinion is to be respected >> regardless of whether I agree with it or not. >> My apologies to Mr. Krug if he felt personally >> insulted in some manner. > >....but goes on to say: > >> Though I try to be respectful, I admit that I am >> more openly skeptical of psychics, astrology, >> wiccan, telekinesis, palmistry, dousing, and a >> host of other pseudoscientific notions. In >> addition, I am proud of my open skepticism. I >> carry the banner of science and I voice my >> criticisms of these practitioners because I >> believe they often bilk the public with their scams >> and I believe that pseudoscience in general >> undermines rational thought and behavior in our >> population. > > These things are not all in the same category. > Wicca is not 'pseudoscience' but religion, and > no more claims domain over science than do > Judaism or most sects of Christianity. Less, in > fact, because no one is expected or required to > prioritize some orthodox set of beliefs over > the evidence of science. I must admit that when I wrote the above I was considerably less familiar with Wicca than the other areas mentioned and should not have lumped them all together without knowing more. After doing some investigation, however, I'm not sure my attitude is changed. Most of the web sites describing Wicca that I came across had a certain luddite mentality to them. They were generally anti-science blaming technology (and greed) for the damage done to the world ecology. In addition, I found that Wicca's believe in magick and perform spells which are alleged to do the following: Healing Healing Ritual To Heal a Friend or Relative Easy Heal-All Spell Skin/Acne Healing Spell AIDS Ritual Headache Spells and Remedies Healing After a Personal Loss Banishing Depression Healing and Preserving Rainforests Protection Severing Negative Ties For Yourself or a Loved One Repelling Negativity To Make Someone Leave You Alone House Blessing Protection in the Snow Psychic Protection Appearance Weight Loss Spell Invisibility A True Beauty Spell Magickal Rite of Beauty To Change Eye Color Communication Spell to get a Call Make Someone Dream of You To Communicate With Someone Personal Power Spells Empowerment Ritual Psychic Spell Third Eye Ritual Memory Rite Confidence Spell Spell for Poetic Inspiration An Artist's Inspiration Spell Cloud Eye Rite Love A "Bring Me Love" Spell Spell to Ease a Broken Heart Attraction Spell Unconditional Love Aphrodisiacs (Sexual Enhancers) Success Spells Spell to Head for Success To Get a Break in Showbusiness Success in a New Venture Money The Green-and-Gold Money Spell Rich Witch Spell To Help Pay Debts Releasing Energy Towards a Goal Peace Ritual To Dream of the Future Rain Spell To Keep Your Computer Working Finding that Which is Lost ------------------------- Now I ask myself... Am I openly skeptical of the Wiccan belief that these spells are effective? Yes, I believe I am. I'm sorry. this is not the proper forum to debate Wicca, so I'll stop. Feel free to write me directly though. There are hundreds of web pages devoted to Wicca and everyone interested should do their own research. For those who want to hear the skeptic's perspective on this and about anything else, check out; http://skepdic.com/ > I appologize for lecturing and hope you don't > take it the wrong way. I'm not being insulted or > attempting to insult--only to dump more knowledge > into the pool. If it helps, I've spent at least > as much bandwidth demythologizing cryonics for > Wiccans. Great! Thanks on behalf of all cryonicists. I agree with you that certain psychic phenomena have received too little rigorous scientific attention. The government did some stuff on remote viewing with some pretty interesting findings I understand (the Stargate Research Project), though the data is not very convincing to many. Also, a note of thanks to George Smith for some clarification. We're still buds, right dude? For the record, once again, my previous (perhaps somewhat derisive) comments were directed at psychics who claim they can communicate with the dead, NOT with whether there is such a thing as an afterlife or not. And again, I do feel obliged to respect everyone's "right" to their point of view, not the point of view itself. And if I criticize, be aware that I am attacking the argument, not the person. Those who feel personally attacked are making faulty inferences. My concerns for the feelings and sensitivities of those who are excessively insecure and defensive when their belief systems are challenged have reasonable limits. Those limits are met when I feel restrained from identifying logical fallacies or unhealthy memes. It is, of course a two-way street. I don't want to continue to harbor misconceptions because other people are afraid of hurting my feelings. Thanks all ... and a warm welcome once again to Ruthanna. It'll be great having a grad student in cognitive psychology contributing to the group. Scott __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14104