X-Message-Number: 1421 From: (M.D. O'Leary) Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,sci.med,sci.bio Subject: Re: After 5,000 years of primitive cryonics Message-ID: <> Date: 10 Dec 92 16:43:31 GMT References: <> In article <> (Nick Szabo) writes: >Can we learn anything about long-term organ storage or cryonics >from the "ice man" who was freeze-dried at -10C for 5,000 years? I assume the temperature range would be anything around -50 to +10 or greater during this time span. >* Are the effects of mummification (drying) as bad as > claimed? How does the destruction of neural cells > and the structural displacement of neural connections > compare to ice crystal growth in wet freezing? An unfortunate accident once mummified a tree frog I had care of. It still looked like a frog (a very thin and undernourished one), but if you shook it, it rattled and fine dust fell out... You want neural connections? You'll be lucky to find a *brain*... >* Does his chemical degradation match the rule of > "factor of two in temperature means factor of ten > in rate of decay"? Isn't decay a more complex > function of mobilized enzymes and parasites? The general rule you state is derived from rates of enzyme activity, and it is they that mediate the decay process: however, I am not sure that it applies in frozen tissues. Its more across standard environmental/physiological temperatures... >* Can this man's brain been examined via CAT scan or directly? > Can we learn anything about his psychology, language, > etc. from examining what is left of the neural structure? Unknown. Depends on condition of brain: as I've said, I think it would be mush. Skull structure can give info on relative size of broad brain regions. However, I doubt any significant difference from modern H. sapiens on this scale. The majority of evolution between him and us is cultural, not physiological. >* Can any of the ice man's organs, bone marrow, skin cells, > etc. be extracted and grown in vitro? Unknown, but again I doubt (and I work in mammalian tissue culture). Under ideal conditions (ie high glycerol content, V. LOW temp, no defrost/refreeze cycling), mammalian cells can last quite a few years... decades? centuries? millenia? unknown, but contraindicated, IMHO >* Will parasites common 5,000 years ago being reintroduced? > The thawed corpse may release a potpouri of ancient plagues > for which we have lost resistance. Archaeologists do not seem to be dying from obscure diseases at a remarkable rate. Nor do people who habitually visit remote areas, or dig holes. They all have exposure to ancient bacteria (such that survive)... >-- >Nick Szabo Thanks for this post. It really gave me a laugh! Old 'popsicle man' seems destined to either grant us immortality, or kill us all. Nice guy. <grin> Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1421