X-Message-Number: 1421
From:  (M.D. O'Leary)
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics,sci.med,sci.bio
Subject: Re: After 5,000 years of primitive cryonics
Message-ID: <>
Date: 10 Dec 92 16:43:31 GMT
References: <>

In article <>  (Nick Szabo) writes:
>Can we learn anything about long-term organ storage or cryonics 
>from the "ice man" who was freeze-dried at -10C for 5,000 years?  
 
I assume the temperature range would be anything around -50 to +10 or greater 
during this time span.

>* Are the effects of mummification (drying) as bad as
>  claimed?  How does the destruction of neural cells
>  and the structural displacement of neural connections
>  compare to ice crystal growth in wet freezing? 

An unfortunate accident once mummified a tree frog I had care of. It still 
looked like a frog (a very thin and undernourished one), but if you shook it, 
it rattled and fine dust fell out... You want neural connections? You'll be 
lucky to find a *brain*...

>* Does his chemical degradation match the rule of
>  "factor of two in temperature means factor of ten
>  in rate of decay"?  Isn't decay a more complex
>  function of mobilized enzymes and parasites?

The general rule you state is derived from rates of enzyme activity, and it is 
they that mediate the decay process: however, I am not sure that it applies in 
frozen tissues. Its more across standard environmental/physiological 
temperatures...

>* Can this man's brain been examined via CAT scan or directly?  
>  Can we learn anything about his psychology, language,
>  etc. from examining what is left of the neural structure? 

Unknown. Depends on condition of brain: as I've said, I think it would be mush.

Skull structure can give info on relative size of broad brain regions. However,
I doubt any significant difference from modern H. sapiens on this scale. The 
majority of evolution between him and us is cultural, not physiological.

>* Can any of the ice man's organs, bone marrow, skin cells,
>  etc. be extracted and grown in vitro?

Unknown, but again I doubt (and I work in mammalian tissue culture). Under 
ideal conditions (ie high glycerol content, V. LOW temp, no defrost/refreeze 
cycling), mammalian cells can last quite a few years... decades? centuries? 
millenia? unknown, but contraindicated, IMHO

>* Will parasites common 5,000 years ago being reintroduced?  
>  The thawed corpse may release a potpouri of ancient plagues 
>  for which we have lost resistance.  

Archaeologists do not seem to be dying from obscure diseases at a remarkable 
rate. Nor do people who habitually visit remote areas, or dig holes. They all 
have exposure to ancient bacteria (such that survive)...

>-- 
>Nick Szabo					 

Thanks for this post. It really gave me a laugh!
Old 'popsicle man' seems destined to either grant us immortality, or kill us 
all. Nice guy.
                                <grin>

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1421