X-Message-Number: 14239
From: "George Smith" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: Copycats in Heaven
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:38:11 -0700

In Message #14230, James Swayze asked:

> If I die and go to heaven, is it really me or a copy?

Then he stated:

> Just kidding! ;) LOL Trying to keep it light.

But your question is really excellent.  It is the flip side of the commonly
asked question about what happens to the soul while someone is frozen.
After all, what happens to the soul if you DO go to heaven (instead of being
nicely bunged up in your frozen physical body as I feel the questioner is
actually suggesting 9 time out of 10)?

For a moment please suppose that there is a "non physical" survival
following death (as is commonly believed by most people). What is the
purported nature of this survival?

There are those who claim there is an "astral" body which formerly resided
in the physical and this "soul body" then resides in some other dimension or
parallel universe ("heaven").  This soul body could certainly be considered
a "copy" of the physical, couldn't it?  (I am aware that there is a
tradition which holds that the physical is a poor copy of the astral, but
that's another issue).

Then there are those who claim that there is only a mental survival and that
the individual fundamentally "hallucinates" having an after death body and
"hallucinates" an afterlife environment.  If that view were correct then the
"hallucinated" body and environment would definitely be a copy, right?

(For that matter, isn't the dream body we all experience in our dreams also
a "copy"?).

These two classical views parallel our current identity arguments remarkably
well.

Instead of a physical brain creating the personality (as identity), we have
the view of a soul body or astral body continuing that work.  The common
theme?  That there is a need for a continuation of "hardware" structure
(physical or astral, depending on the view) for identity to survive.

And instead of a personality-mind pattern (as identity), we have the view of
the mind alone existing and creating experience.  The common theme?  That
there is a need for a continuation of "software" pattern (both mental from
either view) for identity to survive.

The primary issue I believe that is being debated here on the Cryonet is
whether a copy is the original or not when it comes to human identity.

And that is why I love James Swayze's question.

Classically, if I "copy" the physical body after death with an "astral body"
is the copy the original or not?

Classically, if I "copy" the physical body (and its environment) after death
mentally through "hallucination" is this "heavenly" copy the original or
not?

And the answers are no closer when looking at it classically either.  Wow.
Love it!

Thanks, James!

George Smith
"I'm the guy behind my eyes.  Here's lookin' at ya, kid!"  (apologies to
Bogie).

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