X-Message-Number: 14405 Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 19:43:04 -0900 From: "John M Grigg" <> Subject: The CI approach of using funeral directors Hello everyone, I have always been fascinated by the CI method of whenever possible using funeral directors to prepare the cryonics patient. At first I was thrown by the whole idea, but in terms of saving precious time I have to say it appears to be a brilliant approach. I just wonder to what extent a funeral director's services compare to an Alcor standby team? I would like some feedback on this point. It would seem like the time saved would make it worth it. Just how long can a brain be left to decay anyway? lol... But than, as the article points out, a person could easily be bankrupted by a standby team because they simply have not "died on time!" Has Alcor considered using funeral directors also? I would really like to know if it has been considered. I think it would make for a great second option for those without a great deal of discretionary funds. I have not yet signed up for cryonics. I love the CI pricetag and funeral director approach but am attracted to Alcor due to their supposedly technically superior cryonics suspension techniques. It is a hard choice... sincerely, John Grigg Taken from the Cryonics Institute website: EMERGENCY SERVICE Other organizations offer what they call 'Remote Standby Teams' or 'travelling teams' -- squads that travel to members living at a distance from their cryonics organization (as most do) to begin the suspension process once that member is declared legally dead. The problem is, the chances of a Remote Team getting to a distant member in time can sometimes be very remote indeed. As with many of the innovations offered by other organizations, this idea sounds good in theory, but can work very badly indeed in practice. Imagine waking several people in the middle of the night, assembling them, rounding up their equipment and supplies, finding and booking a flight, getting to the airport, waiting for the flight to arrive, boarding, flying perhaps thousands of miles, going from the destination airport to the hospital or home, and finally arriving on the scene. This could take a long time. A dangerously long time. Indeed, in one of the most recent suspensions performed by an organization using this approach, it took thirty-eight hours to reach a member, and that member was then treated by people who had had no experience treating such a patient for two solid years, since no member of that organization had died during that time. Of course, if the patient is known to be dying, with a very short estimated time remaining, then the team might arrive before needed and wait. But estimates of time of death are rarely certain. Sometimes the patient even recovers. Keeping a team on site for days or even weeks can be grotesquely expensive. One organization charges over $2,000 per day for their standby team to 'stand by'. If the patient survives for weeks, the cost of the team could exceed the cost of the suspension itself -- and that cost may have to be paid in cash, not life insurance. The high annual dues paid to those organizations and the total suspension fee -- $120,000 to $150,000 -- does not cover the cost of paying several individuals to stand there and wait around indefinitely. And neither those dues nor the full suspension fee buy a guarantee that the team will get there in time or stay there. And what if several members die? CI, and CI alone, can handle that situation. With every other organization, it's first come, first served. Our research has shown us that rapid initial care and preparation is at least as important as the particular methods used. We have therefore worked to build a network of trained individuals with long expertise in the surgical preparation of bodies, practical knowledge of local hospitals and their personnel, legal status and experience, and most of all the capacity for rapid and immediate arrival and care -- not in days, or even hours, but often in a matter of minutes. You may be surprised at the profession of these individuals. They're funeral directors. Yes, we know that to many people the sound of 'Remote Standby Team' has a trendy, twenty-first century quality, whereas the term 'funeral director' has a stodgy, nineteenth-century sound. But look at the facts. A funeral director can be there at once -- a remote team may not be there for many hours or even days. A funeral director can be found immediately in any major city in the world (and virtually any minor one) -- a remote team may have to fly across a continent or an ocean. Funeral directors may have experience in preparing hundreds, perhaps thousands, of recently deceased individuals -- the most experienced standby remote person has prepared a bit over ten, and in some cases, he may not even be a physician, but a veterinarian or computer programmer or student, whose 'training' may have consisted of one three-day session conducted years ago. Funeral directors are respected professionals often on good and friendly personal terms with local hospitals, nurses, physicians, and legal officals -- remote teams are outsiders from nowhere, often unwelcome, and sometimes treated with suspicion and distrust. Funeral directors are experienced in dealing with the grief and sorrow of family and friends in wrenching moments of loss; and cryonic suspension, though it preserves hope, still involves years of loss -- standby remote teams are technicians, with little practice in the diplomacy and empathy that can cushion emotional shock. In short? Funeral directors can do what has to be done, and do it fast, and well. Standby teams sometimes can't. Which is why even organizations that use standby teams sometimes use a funeral director to supplement their work. But none but CI locates , prepares, and trains them long beforehand. Yes, initial preparation for cryonic suspension is a unique and uncommon procedure. But it isn't an impossibly difficult one. It's a procedure -- as we know from happy experience -- that's not terribly different from their usual operations, and that experienced funeral directors can grasp and execute. Whenever possible, of course, we prefer to instruct, train, equip, and supply them beforehand. But we've found that even for brand-new members, even in completely unexpected emergencies in far distant new locations, we can find a cooperative mortician, provide emergency instructions, and have a patient prepared and on the way to CI in a matter of hours. Our President, Robert Ettinger, recently gave a speech (see News & Views on this site) before several representatives of various cryonics organizations on the successful use of funeral directors. We recommend reading it. It explains what we've come by experience to know: that the use of local morticians can result in much quicker, much more effective, and much less expensive emergency service. It's the best practical solution there is. Now we do recognize that, in some unusual situations, a traveling team might be appropriate. A patient might be in a very remote, isolated location, for instance. Or might be in a location so close to CI that it makes more sense to send experienced people from CI than to work with a local mortician. And we know that some members simply prefer the notion of travelling teams, however weak the case for them may be upon serious reflection. Acknowledging this, CI began to arrange to have just such a team available for such situations and members -- and we did. CI now has full travelling team capacity, and can send people to prepare member patients for suspension on the spot. Nor does this mean that CI is unable to handle other members should two or more members die simultaneously. We have a minimum of five fully trained experienced funeral directors on hand near CI in Michigan should need arise. So members are able to make use of either the travelling team or standard option, as they prefer. But -- we recommend the standard option. Our travelling team is subject to the same difficulties and problems of all travelling teams -- getting them together, arranging flights, and of course the additional cost needed to cover moving people and equipment cross-country. But it will be a separate charge --but we don't plan to charge all our members annual dues for it, like the other groups do. Bottom line: in this as in everything, CI is thinking about its members and trying to give them as many options as we can. But we believe the standard CI approach of training immediately available funeral directors is the best, quickest, most acceptable, and most reliable emergency service a cryonics can feasibly offer. And if you really think about it, we think you'll agree. http://www.cryonics.org/comparisons.html (end) Get your FREE Email and Voicemail at Lycos Communications at http://comm.lycos.com Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14405