X-Message-Number: 14449 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:20:51 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: more on other civilizations Hi again (about extraterrestrial intelligences): Yes, when I put up my message I was speculating, and yes, there may be ways in which extraterrestrial intelligences far older than us might still exist. However I found the arguments for that thesis so far given (and now given on Cryonet) kind of weak, at best. First of all, the mere hypothesis that MOST such species will only be interested in scientific issues doesn't take care of the problem that it only takes ONE civilization interested in COLONIZING to take over the Galaxy. There are variations to this idea, of course. If we are to suppose that most civilizations (or even ALL of them) are as primitive as we are (it has to be ALL of them because those that aren't will quickly take over), then we still have the problem of why such a situation exists in a Universe with an infinite past. That infinite past simply cannot be a copy of the Universe as it now exists. Whether that really means that the Universe is infinite in the past then becomes a matter of definition: it must certainly have changed relatively recently (10 billion years ago), and changed so that creatures like us could evolve. If the Universe really has an infinite past, again, colonizing other Galaxies becomes likely, too. Sure, it may take a long time, but here we are talking about immortality in 21st Century USA. So far, the arguments for existence of other intelligences depend quite strongly on our finite past. Best wishes and long long life for all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=14449