X-Message-Number: 14449
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 08:20:51 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: more on other civilizations

Hi again (about extraterrestrial intelligences):

Yes, when I put up my message I was speculating, and yes, there may
be ways in which extraterrestrial intelligences far older than us
might still exist.

However I found the arguments for that thesis so far given (and
now given on Cryonet) kind of weak, at best. First of all, the mere
hypothesis that MOST such species will only be interested in scientific
issues doesn't take care of the problem that it only takes ONE
civilization interested in COLONIZING to take over the Galaxy.
There are variations to this idea, of course. If we are to suppose
that most civilizations (or even ALL of them) are as primitive as
we are (it has to be ALL of them because those that aren't
will quickly take over), then we still have the problem of why
such a situation exists in a Universe with an infinite past. That
infinite past simply cannot be a copy of the Universe as it now
exists. Whether that really means that the Universe is infinite in
the past then becomes a matter of definition: it must certainly have
changed relatively recently (10 billion years ago), and changed so that
creatures like us could evolve. If the Universe really has an 
infinite past, again, colonizing other Galaxies becomes likely, too.
Sure, it may take a long time, but here we are talking about 
immortality in 21st Century USA.

So far, the arguments for existence of other intelligences depend
quite strongly on our finite past. 

		Best wishes and long long life for all,

			Thomas Donaldson

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