X-Message-Number: 15534 From: "George Smith" <> References: <> Subject: Is cryonics "chancy"? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 13:41:25 -0800 In Message #15517, Jeff Grimes, he wrote in part: "So, I agree that there are differences between cryonics and ordinary medicine. Some of the differences are caused by the lack of any agreement on how patients should be treated. Some of the differences are due to the smallness of cryonics, and its experimental nature. But the real difference is that many cryo people, unlike the medical patients I have met, seem strangely apathetic and have not asked the obvious questions. Since cryonics is MORE experimental and chancy than even a heart bypass operation, I have to wonder why people here aren't more concerned." You, see, Jeff, you have stated here where I believe the priorities of this online disagreement with your postings have ALL come from. Cryonics IS "chancy" compared to the alternative, DEATH, which is CERTAIN. I think this is factually obvious if you just pause and think about it. If you are suggesting that you KNOW that present procedures for cryonics CAN'T work, (and I truly hope that is not what you think) than this is no different than a religious fanatic who pounds on my door and informs me that he KNOWS that I am doomed to an eternity in a grinding hell whereas he is going to a luscious paradise filled with beauty and love. Shoot, even the tabloids don't claim Nostrodamus (or however his name is spelled) was 100% right in those "predictions" he was reputed to make. (We did manage to get through 1999 without a Martian invasion as I recall). You see there are exactly two possibilities about the outcome of any human being who is placed into cryonic suspension whether their bodies were found after two weeks in the desert and then frozen as is, or they had a team of top Medical Researchers begin immediate suspension protocols with the very best cutting edge guesses from research as how to best proceed. I see only two possible outcomes. The patient lives or not. (Now before two hundred postings are filed on my error here, let me be clear that MY assumption is that "where there is life there is hope". If the patient is restored with complete amnesia or with physical disfunctions, I am ASSUMING that there remains the possibility of fully restored human functioning (or better than human) eventually. At that time, physical immortality will probably be the norm and as the old song put it), "We have all the time in the world..." AFTER that to determine if full repair and restoration of faculties is possible in time). But the bottom line is you are either DEAD or ALIVE, right? This fact does not require an advanced degree in biology to understand. It only requires understanding that cryonics will either work FOR YOU or it won't, right? Now the only PRACTICAL question is what should any rational, life loving being do with this information? Well you make a decision either by choice or default, but you are moment by moment making that decision. You either decide to sign up with SOME service (you choose on the basis of whatever else seems to make sense to you) for cryonic suspension and THEN work on the details to try and "improve" protocols based on best guess current experimentation, or you stand in line with most of the other six billion lemmings heading directly to the grave. I keep beating this drum because it is SO OBVIOUS and too many folks are clearly not getting it. You either stay with CERTAIN DEATH or you choose the only current possible option which exists - cryonics. If you wish to be pessimistic your choice as I see it is between CERTAIN DEATH and UNCERTAIN DEATH. If you wish to be optimistic your choice as I see it is between CERTAIN DEATH and POSSIBLE SURVIVAL. There are NO "shades of gray" here. You're either DEAD or ALIVE. So while I read of your efforts to get sufficient detail to justify whether or not you agree with the current CI (or ALCOR, I suppose) protocols, what happens if you have an embolism, or get hit by a car, or have a heart attack? I ask you to question your priorities. If we attain immortality we can argue about details forever. But if you drop dead now, it is 100% over for you. Right now. As you read these words. Now. And now. And now. If cryonics is "chancy" and it is, isn't SOME chance better than NO chance? I urge you (and everyone else not signed up yet) to take that chance now. Argue after (or even during) but don't end up dead right and buried. Nothing else on this topic should be more important to you than your own survival (unless it is the survival of those you love). Best Wishes, George Smith Some chance is better than no chance. PS - I still receive no monetary remuneration in any way for my support of cryonics. I just believe it makes sense to take a chance on personal survival than to settle for certain death. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15534