X-Message-Number: 15679 Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:08:38 -0500 Subject: Professionals From: Mr. Billy Seidel wrote: >> I just visited both web pages. On the CI web page I could only find one name, Robert Ettinger. On the ALCOR web page I found a lot of names and credentials, I have the idea I could call any of them and ask for reasons why they are members of ALCOR. >> I don't pretend to understand the process of suspension. I will leave that to professionals. ALCOR has a lot more of them than CI. If I am going to bet my life, I want to be with the professionals. >> Thanks David for helping me to find even more reasons to join ALCOR. << Of course it is easy to make fun of a statement like this. Mr. Seidel doesn t know anything about suspension, but he s visited two web pages -- not the entire sites, clearly -- and he is willing to bet his life because there are more names and credentials on this page rather than that one. I suppose I could point out that the site of the Society of Cryobiology, which explicitly rejects cryonics, probably lists hundreds if not thousands of more names and credentials than Alcor s and CI s put together, which doesn t strike me as a particularly good reason to leap into a grave. I could even point out that CI also has numerous M.D. members, PhD s, doctors of neurology and theoretical biology and so on, though I admit I ve never bothered counting them. But instead I think I would rather just sit back and marvel at human nature. For the amazing thing people interested in cryonics -- as with those not interested -- is that they tend to be so very impressed with the surface appearance of things. Consider something like, say, traveling teams and funeral directors. Who of us has not thrilled, heart beating like a robin s, to the noble descriptions of standby remote teams of ACT certified cryotransport technicians , and shuddered with revulsion at the thought of being touched by the clammy hands of Tales From The Crypt funeral directors? Those 'certified technicians' sound so -- so professional! But then you take a closer look. ACT? -- it sounds like a government agency, but near as I ve been able to figure, it just means 'Alcor CryoTransport'. Certified as cryotransport technicians ? By whom? Alcor, I think. Harvard Med School doesn t do it. What s training consist of? I m not sure, but two or three days of it seems to certify you, even if you have no previous medical experience whatever. How many people flunk out? Any? Beats me. Still, if you take it, you re an 'ACT certified cryotransport technician -- a professional! And those nineteenth-century ogres, the funeral directors? To quote from an upcoming CI page: "One cornerstone of the Cryonics Institute approach rests on its decision to train and use funeral directors to apply the initial treatment, and sometimes the full cryonic perfusion, of members. It has been argued that funeral directors are not as competent to provide adequate treatment as people instructed in the procedure; which is a strange charge, since it is precisely instruction in the procedure that CI provides funeral directors. The training of a certified cryotransport technician -- certified by a private, unregulated organization unauthorized by the state or any regulatory bodies -- may take place in the course of two or three days. How does a funeral director compare? "The web site of the American Board of Funeral Service Education (http://www.abfse.org/html/faq.html) -- an agency recognized by the United States commissioner of Education, and which accredits mortuary colleges and programs -- states that to qualify as a funeral director, most states require a combination of postsecondary education (at minimum an Associate Degree in Funeral Service Education), passage of the National Board Examination, and service as an apprentice for one or two years. A Funeral Service Education curriculum generally can require at least 60 semester (90 quarter) hours of academic course work. Most programs also require the successful completion of practicum time within a funeral home. As the ABFSE notes, "The curriculum in Funeral Service is comprised of the following courses: Sciences, including micro-biology, pathology, chemistry, anatomy, embalming and restorative art; Business, including small business management, funeral home management and computer skills; Social Sciences, including history and sociology of funeral service, psychology of grief and bereavement counseling; Law and Ethics, including business law, funeral service law and funeral service ethics." "Similarly, the baccalaureate degree program in Mortuary Science and Funeral Service offered at an Ilinois university includes course work to prepare the student for the National Board Examination, requirements for licensure within the profession, is accredited by the American Board of Funeral Service Education, and meets licensing requirements of the Illinois Department of Professional Regulations. "Course work includes laboratory work and studies in, to quote from the online curriculum, "the anatomy of the circulatory system, the autopsied case, the cavity embalming, the contents of the thoracic and abdominal cavities, and various embalming treatments," as well as "sanitation, embalming agents, instruments, and methods of embalming," mortuary anatomy studies focusing on "the structure and function of the human body as a whole including: general organization, structural organization, tissues, skeletal system, nervous system, circulatory system, glands, respiratory system, digestive system, genitourinary system, muscle, integument, and special senses," enbalming chemistry studies covering "the chemistry of the body, sanitation, toxicology, chemical changes in deceased human remains, disinfection, and embalming fluids," plus "microbiology: morphology, structure, physiology, populations of microbial organisms, microbial destruction, immunology, and pathogenic agents," pathology studies involving "the cause, course and effects of diseases upon the human body with stress on ways in which tissue changes affect the embalming process," not to mention special studies in "techniques and procedures used for embalming unique cases such as floaters, burn victims, car accident victims and other traumatic faces of death." Further information on training criteria for funeral directors is available via the Healthweb link to the University of Minnesota Bio-Medical Library s extensive section on Mortuary Science (at http://healthweb.org/browse.cfm?categoryid=521). "The notion, therefore, that funeral directors are by definition inferior to individuals who may have no medical qualifications and whose private non-state-regulated training may consist of two or three days of instruction, is simply silly. It may be true that a fully qualified medical doctor performing the procedure may have more general expertise; but even there we should recall that cryonic suspension is not a part of any conventional medical training, and that no doctor is instructed in it at any medical university or hospital. They, like funeral directors, are practiced in related techniques only, and have to learn the new procedure entirely afresh. But even a fully qualified medical doctor does not do every few days what a funeral director does every few days: perform on human bodies a procedure that involves entirely removing the blood and replacing it with a preservative solution. Even in such cases the relative level of experience and experience-related expertise favors the funeral director." I get the impression that the nanotechnologist or psychiatrist or performance artist, however photogenic, whose credentials impress Mr. Seidel so much on Alcor s page are probably not going to be the ones actually treating Mr. Seidel come the moment of truth. The ones who treat CI members sound pretty professional to me. David Pascal www.cryonics.org Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=15679