X-Message-Number: 15731
From: "Jeff Grimes" <>
Subject: Bob's Fan Club
Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:16:11 +0000

> From: 
> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:38:20 EST

> I am moved to provide testimonial to the honesty and 
> integrity of this man

I don't think I ever said that Robert Ettinger is 
dishonest. I just said that his recent posts reveal that he 
knew nothing about the procedures of another organization, 
and never bothered to ask, but went ahead and accused them 
repeatedly of doing things that were likely to cause human 
damage to frozen people. He has not denied that he did 
this. It is very clear.

> extreme patience and willingness to give level-headed and 
> thoughtful 
> responses even in the face of what appear to be vitriolic 
> and personalized 
> attacks, 

No, actually, it was David Pascal who gave the thoughtful 
answers. (Have you actually been READING this list or are 
you just writing in defense of Bob because he's an old 
friend?) Mr. Ettinger was the one who doubted my motives, 
suggested that I was stupid, and made a few other personal 
smears that weren't based on anything I'd said. 

> should be obvious that he will do all he can within his 
> considerable frame of 
> knowledge and experience to make sure he, himself, gets 
> the best chance of 
> returning to life, just as he has done for so many others.

Ah, now, this is an interesting point. Obviously every 
cryonics person wants the best chance of future life, so, 
you'd think they would act rationally to achieve this. But 
I have gradually realized (mainly through personal emails 
with some CI people) that a lot of "true believers" think 
that it doesn't really matter much what kind of treatment 
you get when you die, because people in the future will fix 
everything. If Mr. Ettinger has this gut feeling, this 
explains why his organization doesn't even bother to test 
the $99 ice blocker that might improve their preservation. 
In that case, why is he even bothering to argue about 
research? I suggest it's because if research will attract a 
few more members, he wants to seem as if he's in favor it 
it. Once again, I see this as empty PR.

>     I took his comments on vitrification to be fair 
> commentary of a very 
> interested observer and not at all the sniping of a 
> jealous competitor 

Even though the comments were inaccurate and damaging 
because he didn't bother to check his facts with Alcor, 
they were "fair," were they?

> I ask my fellow cryonetters to please award this man 
> the great respect that he has earned and continues to 
> deserve as the founder 
> and pre-eminent leader of this movement.

If Jesus Christ was posting inaccurate damaging statements 
here, even he wouldn't deserve our respect. What you've 
done in the past cannot excuse what you do today.

Since two Ettinger fans have suddenly materialized out of 
nowhere saying what a wonderful fellow he is, at a time 
when he has just been discovered saying nasty things about 
competitors without checking his facts, I just see more and 
more attempts at PR. Any man who rounds up his pals to 
defend him, instead of admitting he was wrong and making an 
apology, is a politician, not a scientist.

Caveat emptor.

Jeff Grimes.

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