X-Message-Number: 15800
References: <>
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:58:43 +0000
From: "Joseph Kehoe" <>
Subject: [off topic] Ludittes

Hi,
Some replies to the luditte thing.


Imagine owning the patent on the rice genome. It has not happened yet but what 
if it did.

We should really be thinking about these things now. Genetic engineering and 
nano will have profound

affects on everyones lives.  Of course some people are afraid that they will 
become the sole preserve

of large multinationals or governments.  We should take those worries seriously 
and do something about them now.

We need to sort out the ethical issues in advance.

I never said:
progress is bad
Everything that anti-technologists say is correct

I do say
Technology can be used badly
Some things anti-technologists are worried about are valid concerns


Multinationals have tried to steamroller these technologies in without 
consultation.

They have handled the entire thing very badly and turned a lot of people against
genetic engineering.
A more open approach would have made them more friends.


We do not fully understand how genes affect organisms. That is giving rise to 
some concern regarding changing

 the gene sequence in foodstuffs.  If there are any problems we will not find 
 out for a decade or two and then it is too late.
Remember DDT?
Remember Thaledamide?
I don't think Industry does.


That being said it is hard to have rational discussions with people holding 
"religious" beliefs (e.g. Creationism).

I can see way to convince them about the benefits of technology but we should 
try bring as many people along as possible.

Answers to other replies


The article on The mid-west farmers and seed control came from the London 
Independent (National Paper in Britian) last year some time. I do not have it 
stored anywhere.

Farmers in India, China and most of the undeveloped world grow their own seed.


Roundup is sprayed on crop, just not near harvest and not very often.  The point
about Montsanto was that they lied about the crops they were testing.


If we only have 5% of the actual gene pool saved then no amount of nano can 
bring them back.


About owning your own genes - If  a company can patent one of your genes, then 
it is NOT your property is it?

>>Poverty, slavery, war and sickness occur more now than at any
>>time in the past.
>
>Absolutely NOT true.  So wrong as to be indefensible.  This one sentence
>shows that you've not done a single iota of homework to back it up.  No
>offense meant to you here, but I have to call it as it is, and this is a
>false statement, on every count.


Could you name that time in the past when there were more people suffering from 
sickness, famine and war than now?
If you can do that then I was wrong. Just name that time.
You will need a time when approx.
3 billion are malnorished
27 million are slaves (not including people who live under despots)
there is a major (at least one) war every day of the year


To help you out if you go back more than 50 years you will fail on the first 
count as the total population will be less than 2.5 bn


That there is also more wealth now than at any time but that does not detract 
from the above.



The 1% of the worlds population having a college education may be wrong but I do
see how 8% could possibly be right.
I will check up on it.

Joseph.

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