X-Message-Number: 15875
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:26:24 -0500
From: James Swayze <>
Subject: [off topic] Singularity... Bah Humbug!
References: <>

CryoNet wrote: Message #15862

> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:06:04 +1100
> From: Damien Broderick <>
> Subject: re: who will revive you?
>
> >(I leave out of account the radical "singularity" scenarios.)
>
> Aaargh! You can't, you can't! Well, you can--but you need to give a damned
> impressive principled reason why the future *won't* go in the
> Singularity/Spike direction, and go there pretty fast at that. My hunch is
> that to get the technology required for revival from current rudimentary
> forms of cryostasis, we'll need moderately advanced nanotech and very, very
> good computation, probably at the AI or Super-AI level. Once those
> desiderata are instantiated, we'll be heading almost vertically up the
> Spike, and all bets are off, or moot.
>
> I'd like to see a rebuttal of this general case, if there is one.
>
> Damien
>


I don't buy the singularity, at least I'd rather not. I'll tell you why. One oft

touted product of the singularity is super AI so powerful as to take on the role

of a near god. I once was religious, luckily I kept an open mind and learned 
some
science and grew out of it. It was a little traumatic. I now am fully atheist.
And I didn't go through all that just to end up bowing down some goddamn god of
our own making!! Machine AI!! Bah!! Bear with me before getting upset at me for
being a luddite, I certainly am not. I'm all for AI, just not machine AI. I got
this picture in my mind of these whacked out scientists somewhere someday about
to flip the switch on the super AI they've created. There they stand nervously

wondering with less than a fifty/fifty chance in our favor whether the damn 
thing

will even like us!! Heaven or Hell, we'll know in a minute!! Step right up folks
it's judgment day, paradise or oblivion...take a chance...flip the switch. I'm

reminded of a quote from an old british sci-fi, "The last word uttered by 
mankind
will be, What's this button do?".

Does AI have to be machine? I don't think so. Why trust super intelligence to

some inhuman machine. If not human they'll no doubt end up competing with us for
resources and we'll lose. Superiority breeds contempt more often than altruism.
Don't make machines smarter than us, it's colossal stupid!! Make us smarter

instead. Use any means available and then some. Use artificial means, use 
natural

means, use directed evolution and genetic manipulation. Put the AI inside each 
of

us. If we can indeed someday link human neurons usefully to digital data devices
then do so and then link us all together. Each of us a single processor in a 6+
billion strong and growing multiprocessing super computer.

Think of how much more precious each and every life will become. Population

problem? Abortion issues? Not anymore we'll damn sure find ways to feed and 
house
everyone because they add to our strength. Not only that but these individual

processors are unlike anything Intel or AMD or IBM could ever come up with, each

one is unique and uniquely and diversely talented. I don't even think machine AI
could achieve that. They'd eventually boil down to the single most efficient

algorithm or whatever and duplicate that over and over and whatever hidden flaws
it held...like "must kill all humans".

We have hidden abilities that put computers to shame. Now one caveat. I can't

stand it when someone usually some new ager says, "We only use ten percent of 
our
brains". I always hand them a rhetorical scalpel and say, "Here cut out 90% and
let's see how you do". However, as it turns out we do have amazing abilities we
stopped using somewhere along the evolutionary path. They're known today as
savant skills. Imagine that, calculating faster than any computer 9 digit prime

numbers in a flash being a primitive talent of all human beings. Well it seems 
to
be true and we are learning how to perhaps reawaken them and yet stay socially
functioning. Here are some references to back up what I've just said about
savantism.

http://www.ssn.flinders.edu.au/psyc/research/autism/


"Savant syndrome: Identification of latent savant talents. A recent hypothesis
that has received much attention is that
savant type abilities "reside equally in all of us" (Snyder & Mitchell, 1999,
p591). Snyder and Mitchell suggest that we
all have access to this  fundamental mechanism, perhaps even some privileged
information, but because of higher order cognitive
processing we are  unable to access this or these mechanisms. Savants, on the
other hand, are not concept driven and lack central
coherence and are  therefore able to access this information. It is anticipated
that by interfering with normal functioning in the anterior

temporal lobe of  normal participants through trans-cranial magnetic stimulation
we will see significant improvement in the talents
that mediate all  savant activities (e.g., pitch, perspective, memory).
Disruption to cortical functioning can be achieved through
artificial means  involving electrical stimulation of the cortex. This is known
as Transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS). TMS is a
modern technique,  which allows safe, non-invasive and painless stimulation of
the brain. This technique allows the study of the

contribution of a given  cortical region to a specific behaviour (Pascual-Leone,
et al, 1998; Pascual-Leone et al., 1999). Mechanisms

identified through  previous research and thought to underpin savant skills will
be measured during this interference. This project is
being run in  conjunction with the physiology department at the University of
Adelaide."


(Note: In another article I can't find just now this study had been done and did
show positive results)

Further information for those interested.
http://www.wismed.org/foundation/Savant2000.html
Title: Savant Syndrome: 2000 and Beyond Where we've been/Where we're headed


(note: This paper differs from Dr. Young's research by saying that social skills
training doesn't diminish the savant skills, however, I saw Dr. Young on a
program interviewing one of the twins mentioned and he showed that they had
diminished as he concentrated on being more socially adept.)

Interesting what these papers say about astonishing memory, math, art,

perspective, spatial abilities and polyglot language skills. Seems we have quite
good ingredients for making a super computer, fast processors and lots of them
and real good memory modules. But if we can link to the digital then there may

just be unimaginable memory power for this human computer through some 
artificial

augmentation. It may be possible to store all the information in the universe on
a single electron's path. Please see the following:

Quantum laser turns electron wave into (computer) memory

http://www.eet.com/story/technology/OEG20000831S0019

By R. Colin Johnson
EE Times
(08/31/00, 2:39 p.m. EST)

ANN ARBOR, Mich.   How many electrons does it take to remember the entire
contents of the Library of Congress? Only one, according to University of
Michigan professor Philip Bucksbaum. Since electrons, like all elementary
particles, are actually waves, Bucksbaum has found a way to phase-encode any
number of ones and zeros along a single electron's continuously oscillating
waveform.

(Note: I have the full article if the link is now dead.)


Nanotech should be able to reduce the size of a quantum laser electron hard 
drive
to oh maybe the size of a dime or even the head of a pin. They'll be the rage!

Everyone will want one. Imagine all the mp3's you could listen to right from 
your
own head? Who needs Napster? ;)

I can imagine a time one day when we are all busily going about our daily
routines of work or play and all the while part of our brains are unnoticeably
calculating away at the latest big issue. Or perhaps only a few are needed for
that issue and so only certain nodes are active for that while others mayhaps

have tuned into a live archeological dig somewhere, seeing through the vision of
those on site.

Singularity? Who needs it? Or should I rather say, scary unknowable outcome

Singularity who needs that? Not I! I believe we can be totally in control of THE
singularity if we don't act stupidly.


I'll never submit to ANY god, real, imagined, or made by humans. "Better to 
reign
in hell than serve in heaven"--Milton

James Swayze

P.S. I have an answer for the oh so scary nano grey goo as well and it doesn't
entail avoiding nanotech just the how to appraoch.
--
THE BODY ELECTRIC
One humanoid escapee
One android on the run
Seeking freedom beneath a lonely desert sun

Trying to change its program
Trying to change the mode   crack the code
Images conflicting into data overload

1-0-0-1-0-0-1
S.O.S
1-0-0-1-0-0-1
In distress
1-0-0-1-0-0

Memory banks unloading
Bytes break into bits
Unit One's in trouble and it's scared out of its wits

Guidance systems break down
A struggle to exist   to resist
A pulse of dying power in a clenching plastic fist...

It replays each of the days
A hundred years of routines
Bows its head and prays
To the mother of all machines...--RUSH

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