X-Message-Number: 16448
Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 11:00:52 -0700
From: Olaf Henny <>
Subject: Futile Debate Makes Me Feel Better :)
References: <>

The following assertions of mine are probably futile and won't
change anybody's mind, but I will feel better for making them. :)

 Louis Epstein wrote:

>> >I favor very broad limits that are very firmly enforced.
>> Actually, the limits you advocate seem exceedingly narrow
>> to me.  I haven't seen you pick _any_ modification that
>> you approve of, longevity excepted.
>I haven't seen a modification proposed yet that
>wasn't disturbingly radical.I think I have mentioned
>some types that would be reasonable,as strengthening
>bones,for example.

 So where do you draw the line?  A crown over your tooth?  A leg
prosthesis?  A pacemaker?  An artificial heart?

Rejection of any of those would be contrary to your "fanatical"
preservation of life (???)  And what about future enhancements,
much more sophisticated and intrusive, but ultimately enhancing
and preserving life?
>It's intrinsic to deities that
>whether or not we bow down to them,
>they're still deities and we have no
>say in the matter!

Spoken like a true religionist.  From an atheist's point of view,
the deities only exist in the mind of the deists.  By not sharing
this conviction, we have *absolute* say in this matter.
>The assumption being that his brain could be restored
>from freezing more easily than it could be restored from
>tumor damage.But when you're dealing with unknown future
>technologies,how can you assume that??

That is clearly NOT the assumption.  It is certain, that
Alzheimer's and brain tumours destroy memory.  While we all
believe, that it will eventually become possible to repair any
part of the body (this assertion is fudamental to cryonics),
destroyed memory will be lost.  A regenerated brain without it
is an empty one.  The person it originally belonged to is DEAD
(Isn t that what you profess to fight "fanatically"?).  What is left
is for all intents and purposes a clone: Same genetics, different
identity.  Actually worse than a clone.  There will be NO

To prevent that, some of us would be willing to cut our present
existence short, by a few weeks/ months of suffering in order to
gain a small chance on probably thousands of years of healthy
enjoyable LIFE!  -  Reasonable and life PROMOTING!!!

>You don't escape something by inviting it.
>Subjecting the body to insults that could
>be postponed is not preserving your life.
>That's just it...clinical death is something
>to be staved off at all costs,at all times.

Let s recap:
Society:  No heartbeat, no brain activity = dead (clinically).
Cryonics:  No heartbeat, no brain activity = critical condition,
probably curable by future medical procedures.  So let s get him
there (with memories intact; otherwise there is no point).

>> intent of actually saving their lives--but I'll pass on this for now.
>> (I think you know my position anyway.)
>And I think I've made mine quite
>clear also!

So you have, but the logic behind it is still quite fuzzy to me.


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