X-Message-Number: 16466
Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:36:28 -0500 (CDT)
From: Eivind Berge <>
Subject: Atheism

Olaf Henny wrote: 

> [Louis Epstein:]
> >It's intrinsic to deities that
> >whether or not we bow down to them,
> >they're still deities and we have no
> >say in the matter!
> Spoken like a true religionist. From an atheist's point of view, the
> deities only exist in the mind of the deists. By not sharing this
> conviction, we have *absolute* say in this matter.

We can never disprove the existence of deities. A religious belief in
the nonexistence of God is almost as irrational as other religions. And
agnostics seem to me to be just doubting theists, ready to bow down
and worship if the evidence should be sufficient. I don't know if there
is a God, but I know that I won't let him control my values or actions
(as far as I can prevent it) regardless of whether he exists. I consider
this atheism.

Louis Epstein wrote:

> I do not believe in divinely-ordained churches or scriptures.I just
> consider that there has to be a reason for That-Which-Is,that this
> reason is by definition "God" 

So, there is no way to derive any morality from this concept of divinity
you so adamantly believe in -- no way to infer any clue about how we
ought to conduct our lives; you are in effect just as atheistic as my
above stated position?

Eivind Berge
One mercifully hopes there are water-nymphs in the Styx. --Nabokov

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