X-Message-Number: 16490
From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
Subject: Fw: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP. Australian case.
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:47:45 +0200

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: Trygve Bauge 
To: Trygve Bauge ; Nord 
Cc:  ;  ;  
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.


Re: the Australian case:

Important:


before the person died, was there ever taken any blod samples, biopsies or other
cell samples,
was there ever taken and cultivated any tissue samples?

Are any such samples kept alive in cultures,
or frozen or otherwise preserved?

And where are these samples?


Since the person was already burried on Wednesday the 6th of June 2001, I assume
the person by now, already has been dead for at least a week.

That means that non of the large cryonics organizations will want to deal with 
this.
Which means that one is left to one's own devices.

If the next of kin and the authorites permit this,
one could still exhume and freeze the body.


If the motivation is to bring back the person or someone as like it as possible,
then the best shot would probably be to

store a tissue sample in liquid nitrogen, until dead tissue technically and 
legally can be cloned. One could also gather and store as much information 
(pictures and written knowledge) about the diseased as possible from
all sources including from others still alive.

With enough money one could then possibly clone the person sometime in the 
future and with traditional techniques teach the clone as much as possible about
the person it was cloned from.

As far as healing the dead body itself, that is a longshot,
and the chances of fully restoring its mental content might 
be close to nill.

On the other hand, much of our mental content we share with others: e.g. some is
shared by all humans, some is shared by all that lived at the same time,  and 
some is shared by next of kin, friends and aquaintences that still are alive. 
And some is already recorded in the dead persons own writings and achievments 
etc.


If one wanted to take the time and money one could possibly preserve a lot of 
this knowledge, and create a clone that had the same biological and genetic 
traits and much of the same mental content.

Healing a diseased body without nano technology,

might sometime in the future possibly  work for those frozen alive, or under 
ideal circumstances.

And healing dead bodies might possibly work,

if we can master nano technology and can find another source for much of  the 
person's mental content than the person itself.


As for today the best one can do is to take cell samples while still alive, 
cultivate, separate and freeze these.

Store as much of one's will system and mental content as possible 
electronically.
And then clone the cell samples once this becomes legal and affordable.

And then teach the clone with conventional educational techniques the essence of
the life, wills and mental system of the person it was cloned from.


On the other hand if one has money to burn, one can always freeze dead bodies 
for perpetuity, and take it as a challenge to try to restore still more of a 
person from still more decomposed corpses.


It might become possible to glean information and biological structures from the
dead as well as from other sources and use this to create a live copy.

or even repair and incorporate in a clone still larger tissue samples from the 
original person.

But would it be the same person?

Or would it be a continuation of the same consciousness?

Does it really matter?

If one is dead, and the alternative is to remain dead,

wouldn't then even a clone that carries on some of one's wills and mental 
content, be an improvement?


And if the body is so damaged that its mental content has to be restored from 
other sources than itself, and only can be partially restored, wouldn't it still
to some extent be the same person even if it is a clone and even more so if it 
is not a clone but the same body that has been physically but not mentally 
healed.


We could get clones or revived people that are physically and mentally fit, and 
that share a large part of the mental content of their original version.


If we already systematically started to store all essential information: will 
systems, mental content etc, and cell samples,

it would be much easier to raise the same people from the dead once they 
eventually have died.


We would then have a backup source of the mental content, and the challenge 
would be reduced to repairing the body or cloning live tissues already taken, 
and then copying the mental content back in.


I foresee that even long dead or badly decomposed corpses could eventually be 
restored if we already have another source of their earlier mental content, and 
some live cell samples to use in cloning the body or parts of the latter.


The quest is to achieve the highest degree of continuation of one's own 
consciousness, will system and mental content.

The main challenge is not to die.


The second challenge is to be frozen under ideal circumstances, and be stored 
until one can be fully brought back,


A useful tool to the latter might be to set up an organization with the capacity
to store relevant information and live cell samples over time and to clone and 
raise people with the essence of the donors mental contents.


The latter might make it easier to repair the original bodies too, e.g. by 
opening for cloning of organs,

and it might also offer continuation to a large extent even for those who are 
not frozen under ideal circumstances,

those whose body can be repaired, but whose mental content has to be restored 
from other sources,
or those whose bodies can't be repaired but has to be cloned. 


Sincerely,

Trygve Bauge
(47) 22-14-80-78
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Trygve Bauge 
  To: Nord 
  Cc:  ;  ;  
  Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:07 AM
  Subject: Re: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.


  First of all:
  What is the name, age and gender of the person?
  When did this person die?
  When was the person burried?
  Where is the body burried?
  What did it die from?

  Who are the next of kin ?
  Any parents, any spouse or any kids astill live?
  Where can these be reached (e-mail and phone)?


  If the next of kin e.g. a spouse or in the abscence of a spouse all the kids, 
  or in the abscence of any kids, the parents, or in the abscence of such the 
  nearest next of kin 
  wants the person exhumed and frozen,


  then it should be fairly straightforward to set up a dry ice box, and exhume 
  the body and place it in the dry ice box.


  basically you need land, a storage shed/barn and the owners pemission to use 
  that shed.


  Then you need to build a box or crate and insulate it with blueboards 
  (isolation material used in house construction)

  Preferably the shed should be close to a supplier of dry ice.


  Then you can shop around for a liquid nitrogen dewar or an electrical freezer.
  
  It might not do any good though, if the body is too deteriorated.


  On the other hand there might be enough DNA left so that money permitting, a 
  clone can be created as soon as it becomes possible and legal to clone death 
  tissue.

  Furthermore,
  If you want assistance,
  you might get this faster by using the phone, than by using e-mail.

  e.g. a phone call wakes people up,
  an e-mail they might not see until they log on days later.

  Sincerely,

  Trygve Bauge 

  (47) 22-14-80-78  (Norway)
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Nord 
    To: Trygve B. Bauge 
    Cc:  
    Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:49 AM
    Subject: Fw: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.


    Hej, vad g ra?
    Mvh
    /TN
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: elizabeth kostadinova. 
    To:  
    Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:45 PM
    Subject: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.



    CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE ME SOME IMMEDIATE ADVICE IN FINDING STORGARGE AND 
    SERVICES FOR 
    FAMILY MEMBER THAT HAS DIED,

    I HAVE RANG THE ALCO GROUP AND CRYNOIC USA,BUT THEY REFUSE TO EXCEPT PEOPLE 
    THAT HAVE BEEN BURIELD,
    AS THE DECEASED HAS BEEN BURED IN

    VERY COLD CLIMATE,AND I WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO BE SUSPENDED FOR INMMEDIATE 
    MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY,
    FOR THE FURTURE ,

    CAN YOU ADVICE ANY INTISUTE OR MEDICAL FALILITY THAT MAY TAKE INMY SIUTATION
        AS I NEED TO FIND IMMEDIATE CONTACTS,

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