X-Message-Number: 16491
From: "Trygve Bauge" <>
Subject: Fw: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP. Australian case.
Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 12:48:41 +0200
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----- Original Message -----
From: Trygve Bauge
To: Trygve Bauge ; Nord
Cc: ; ;
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 2:11 AM
Subject: Re: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.
re the Australian case.
(This message crashed the first time i tried to send it out,
but I am trying again:)
If Alcor, C.I. and Trans Time won't help,
You could do the following yourself:
a) set up a dry ice storage.
A storage chest can easily be built by using plywood, 2 by 4 studs and
blueboards (isopor).
b) set up a liquid nitrogen storage
by buying a dewar from Taylor Wharton or Minnesota Valley Engineering.
or c) aquire a large electrical freezer
from Harris or Kelvinator or some other scientific supply store, and a backup
generator and a C02 backup system.
The easiest immediate solution would be to opt for the dry ice storage,
then take the time to acquire a liquid nitrogen dewar from Minnesota Valley
Engineering or an electrical freezer from one of the companies that supply such.
But before you do anything else, you need to get the permission from the next of
kin to exhume the body that has been burried.
If you want designs, names, phone numbers or prices or if I can be of any
assistance, you might call me at
(47)22-14-80-78 here in Norway.
Sincerely,
Trygve Bauge
----- Original Message -----
From: Trygve Bauge
To: Trygve Bauge ; Nord
Cc: ; ;
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.
Re: the Australian case:
Important:
before the person died, was there ever taken any blod samples, biopsies or
other cell samples,
was there ever taken and cultivated any tissue samples?
Are any such samples kept alive in cultures,
or frozen or otherwise preserved?
And where are these samples?
Since the person was already burried on Wednesday the 6th of June 2001, I
assume the person by now, already has been dead for at least a week.
That means that non of the large cryonics organizations will want to deal with
this.
Which means that one is left to one's own devices.
If the next of kin and the authorites permit this,
one could still exhume and freeze the body.
If the motivation is to bring back the person or someone as like it as
possible, then the best shot would probably be to
store a tissue sample in liquid nitrogen, until dead tissue technically and
legally can be cloned. One could also gather and store as much information
(pictures and written knowledge) about the diseased as possible from
all sources including from others still alive.
With enough money one could then possibly clone the person sometime in the
future and with traditional techniques teach the clone as much as possible
about the person it was cloned from.
As far as healing the dead body itself, that is a longshot,
and the chances of fully restoring its mental content might
be close to nill.
On the other hand, much of our mental content we share with others: e.g. some
is shared by all humans, some is shared by all that lived at the same time,
and some is shared by next of kin, friends and aquaintences that still are
alive. And some is already recorded in the dead persons own writings and
achievments etc.
If one wanted to take the time and money one could possibly preserve a lot of
this knowledge, and create a clone that had the same biological and genetic
traits and much of the same mental content.
Healing a diseased body without nano technology,
might sometime in the future possibly work for those frozen alive, or under
ideal circumstances.
And healing dead bodies might possibly work,
if we can master nano technology and can find another source for much of the
person's mental content than the person itself.
As for today the best one can do is to take cell samples while still alive,
cultivate, separate and freeze these.
Store as much of one's will system and mental content as possible
electronically.
And then clone the cell samples once this becomes legal and affordable.
And then teach the clone with conventional educational techniques the essence
of the life, wills and mental system of the person it was cloned from.
On the other hand if one has money to burn, one can always freeze dead bodies
for perpetuity, and take it as a challenge to try to restore still more of a
person from still more decomposed corpses.
It might become possible to glean information and biological structures from
the dead as well as from other sources and use this to create a live copy.
or even repair and incorporate in a clone still larger tissue samples from the
original person.
But would it be the same person?
Or would it be a continuation of the same consciousness?
Does it really matter?
If one is dead, and the alternative is to remain dead,
wouldn't then even a clone that carries on some of one's wills and mental
content, be an improvement?
And if the body is so damaged that its mental content has to be restored from
other sources than itself, and only can be partially restored, wouldn't it
still to some extent be the same person even if it is a clone and even more so
if it is not a clone but the same body that has been physically but not
mentally healed.
We could get clones or revived people that are physically and mentally fit,
and that share a large part of the mental content of their original version.
If we already systematically started to store all essential information: will
systems, mental content etc, and cell samples,
it would be much easier to raise the same people from the dead once they
eventually have died.
We would then have a backup source of the mental content, and the challenge
would be reduced to repairing the body or cloning live tissues already taken,
and then copying the mental content back in.
I foresee that even long dead or badly decomposed corpses could eventually be
restored if we already have another source of their earlier mental content,
and some live cell samples to use in cloning the body or parts of the latter.
The quest is to achieve the highest degree of continuation of one's own
consciousness, will system and mental content.
The main challenge is not to die.
The second challenge is to be frozen under ideal circumstances, and be stored
until one can be fully brought back,
A useful tool to the latter might be to set up an organization with the
capacity to store relevant information and live cell samples over time and to
clone and raise people with the essence of the donors mental contents.
The latter might make it easier to repair the original bodies too, e.g. by
opening for cloning of organs,
and it might also offer continuation to a large extent even for those who are
not frozen under ideal circumstances,
those whose body can be repaired, but whose mental content has to be restored
from other sources,
or those whose bodies can't be repaired but has to be cloned.
Sincerely,
Trygve Bauge
(47) 22-14-80-78
----- Original Message -----
From: Trygve Bauge
To: Nord
Cc: ; ;
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.
First of all:
What is the name, age and gender of the person?
When did this person die?
When was the person burried?
Where is the body burried?
What did it die from?
Who are the next of kin ?
Any parents, any spouse or any kids astill live?
Where can these be reached (e-mail and phone)?
If the next of kin e.g. a spouse or in the abscence of a spouse all the
kids, or in the abscence of any kids, the parents, or in the abscence of
such the nearest next of kin
wants the person exhumed and frozen,
then it should be fairly straightforward to set up a dry ice box, and exhume
the body and place it in the dry ice box.
basically you need land, a storage shed/barn and the owners pemission to use
that shed.
Then you need to build a box or crate and insulate it with blueboards
(isolation material used in house construction)
Preferably the shed should be close to a supplier of dry ice.
Then you can shop around for a liquid nitrogen dewar or an electrical
freezer.
It might not do any good though, if the body is too deteriorated.
On the other hand there might be enough DNA left so that money permitting, a
clone can be created as soon as it becomes possible and legal to clone
death tissue.
Furthermore,
If you want assistance,
you might get this faster by using the phone, than by using e-mail.
e.g. a phone call wakes people up,
an e-mail they might not see until they log on days later.
Sincerely,
Trygve Bauge
(47) 22-14-80-78 (Norway)
----- Original Message -----
From: Nord
To: Trygve B. Bauge
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:49 AM
Subject: Fw: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.
Hej, vad g ra?
Mvh
/TN
----- Original Message -----
From: elizabeth kostadinova.
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 06, 2001 12:45 PM
Subject: REGARDING SOME IMMEDIATE HELP.
CAN YOU PLEASE GIVE ME SOME IMMEDIATE ADVICE IN FINDING STORGARGE AND
SERVICES FOR
FAMILY MEMBER THAT HAS DIED,
I HAVE RANG THE ALCO GROUP AND CRYNOIC USA,BUT THEY REFUSE TO EXCEPT
PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN BURIELD,
AS THE DECEASED HAS BEEN BURED IN
VERY COLD CLIMATE,AND I WOULD LIKE FOR THEM TO BE SUSPENDED FOR INMMEDIATE
MEDICAL TECHNOLOGY,
FOR THE FURTURE ,
CAN YOU ADVICE ANY INTISUTE OR MEDICAL FALILITY THAT MAY TAKE INMY
SIUTATION
AS I NEED TO FIND IMMEDIATE CONTACTS,
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