X-Message-Number: 16515 Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:55:41 -0500 From: david pizer <> Subject: late reply to three Pizer replies to three I tried to send this several days ago and something went wrong. I hope better later than never is still in. Reply to: >From: Deathist Lurker Girl <> >Subject: On being taken seriously... snip >Well, bullfeathers! >I am an avid reader of this list. I am in favor of >humanity/transhumanity/whatever-each-person's-own-term-is finding a way to >be happily and productively immortal. However, for personal reasons of my >own, *I* do not choose to participate in this future *myself* snip Ok, I respect your decision to not want biological immortality. Please don't feel offended, the assumption in my piece was that if you want biological immortality for *yourself* you should get signed up now. I think that argument still holds. ------------------- Reply to >From: James Swayze <> >Subject: Would love to be signed up...wanna help? >Dave: >I know you didn't mean this to apply to me. Wrong! I want eveyone, who wants to avoid death, to have their way, why not you? > At least I hope you didn't. I feel >you just didn't >think of my situation existing. I'd love to be signed up!! The problem is I >can't afford it yet. I hope >to one day but there are some significant hurdles in the way. First, I am a quadriplegic and I have >diabetes and a bone disease and have had one kidney removed due to chronic bladder infection which >reached the kidney. No insurance company that, could be trusted to actually pay off, would in their >right mind sell me a life insurance policy. I would like you to explore that a little more. I used to sell life insurance, and what you have described is not an unisurable condition. It might require a higher premium, but I hope you will get some estimates and post them to this forum. Get a quote from the life insurance salesman in Flordia, his name is Rudi and he posts he sometimes. >>Then there is my income. It's not much on Social Security disability, a mere 6k/year Since, I want to see you avoid death, I will speak straightforward, rather than just throw you some kind words and leave you to face eternal death without a chance. Having read some of your postings, I have come to the conclusion that you are a bright and personable person. However, I don't understand your physical condition, but I have seen cases where people like (what I interpret) what you describe your condition to be who were working. Can you do some work for pay with computers or telephones if you had special equipment? Could you be fitted with equipment that would allow you to use your skills at communicating with people to earn yourself a good living? Even if you have to give back your $6,000 per year government money if/when you are able to earn that much, and then hopefully much more, with the talents that I see in your writings, it seems that if you can find a way to use them you should be able to eventually earn many times that amount. It would seem that the government would have programs to try to get you equipment and training so that you could earn money and pay them taxes? What have you done to investigate this? If there is something that I do not understand, I apologize in advance if I am way off. I speak frankly because rather than give you kind words, I would like to see if a a way for you to purchase cryonics can be found. Just giving you pleasant words is not better than the doctor giving you inexpensive candy when you are sick instead of medicine. Let's try to find a way for you to survive! You said to me ".... wanna help?" I would like to explore possible ways to help YOU *earn* enough money to become self-suficient. When we complete VentureVille, a few years away or sooner, we will need people to answer phones and E-mail requests and other personal communications. That might be a job that could pay enough to live on and buy higher-risk insuance. Can you relocate? Can you do these things if you had the equipment? Can you get it? I invite you to explore this (if you want to) by contacting me personaly at my E-mail address snip Reply to: Name wiped out by accident - sorry. snip >Well,what some here are proposing >to either seek preferentially or >uncomplainingly settle for is not >BIOLOGICAL immortality,but some form >of INFORMATIONAL immortality. I was talking about biological immortality, not informational immortality. >I don't want to be the plays of >Aeschylus or Epic of Gilgamesh...I >want to stay a real person, That makes two of us. So far we are both in the same tent. >> The very first thing to be done for one who wants to be a part of this >> unique project is to get personally signed up, at this time. Only then, >> should you go out and try to help others. You should not be taken >> seriously as a supporter of biological immortality, if you are not at least >> signed up for cryonics suspension. >Your impression of the fundamentalness >of cryonics to immortalism is not shared >by everyone out to not age.How many of >Saul Kent's customers at LEF are signed-up >cryonicists, do you think? Most of the persons who buy Saul's and Bill's fine health products are not interested in biological immortality. They want to live a full "natural" life. They want to feel good while they do that. They want to look good while they do that. Saul and Bill inform them about cryonics, and some of them have benefited from that, but I do not think that most of them are candidates for full biological immortality yet. There is work needed to be done for our fellow humans to educate them on why biological immortality is desriable. We all (those of us who do want biological immortality) should be doing work to help make the quest for biological immortality a reality. The way to do that is to get signed up for cryonics and then gather with fellow-like-minded immortalists and work to get others interested and then signed up. I was talking about something different than just good health through a natural life span, I was talking about true biological immortality. It is to people who also want this that I am appealing to. It is to people who do not want to be dead, that I want to bring together so that we can work together and help change the way most other people feel about moral issues that pertain to what we are striving for. While we are waiting for VentureVille to be completed, those who are interested can get themselves signed up and start communicating with others who are not signed up. >All strategies need to be evaluated. >After all,it's generally anticipated that >by the time cryonics patients can be >successfully thawed,those who haven't been >frozen in the first place can be kept alive >even more easily in the face of whatever >got those patients frozen. The only strategy that is available right now is cryonics. If one really wants to try to live forever, the first thing to do is get signed up, the next things to do are to help others get signed up. There is no other option available yet. >> I would also think it was acting irresponsibly if someone was advocating >> biological immortality and was not, at the very least, signed up for >> suspension, since often actions are counted more than words. >Clearly,a Venturist-cryonicist >would think that,but not everyone >out to become immortal is one. I think our basic values are shared by all those who want to become immortal: we stand for the use of technology to try to defeat death and the moral position to always do what is right. I think most cryoncists would endorse this. Dave Pizer Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=16515