X-Message-Number: 16568
From: "George Smith" <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: David Pizer's call for Ideas
Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2001 12:06:32 -0700

In message #16558 Davis Pizer wrote,

"It seems that some of the basic premises of this new and powerful argument
must address:
1. Why life is valuable to live;
2. Why biological immortality is apt to come along soon;
3. Why cryonics might provide a vehicle to that future time.
4. Why the future will be a great place to be.

"Each premise is very complicated and it can be a small argument on the way
to combining all four.

"The first premise, why life is valuable to live, must show why life is
valuable to live as an end, and not merely as a means to some other end.
It can be a means and an end, but the premise must not merely be a means.
I think we present immortalists do realize that life is valuable for the
quality and enjoyment of living it, in and of that reason(s) alone.  How do
we convince others of this?

The first premise could also address why being dead is not a good thing.

"I believe the first premise is where the most work is needed to convince
others that the rest of the argument is worth considering.  If they are not
convinced by the end of the argument for the fist premise, they are not
going to seriously consider anything further in this work."

David, I think that your other three areas are excellent but I honestly have
come to believe that anyone who needs to have #1 explained is doing us all a
BIG favor by choosing death.  Until we can come to install mental health
(something I believe WILL become possible in time), I truly consider the
many, many people who NEED arguments for #1 to have an acute and terminal
case of mental illness, by definition.

#4 is where #1 might be addressed.  IF the brain rot which causes people to
believe that life is NOT worth living (a popular verbal claim despite their
constant scurrying to avoid the onslaught of the Grim Reaper when He
actually approaches THEM!) can be combated it surely will come from the HOPE
that the future could be better and even desirable.

We are attracted by pleasure and repelled by pain.  (Even the search for
meaning and the satisfaction of our curiosity is a form of pleasure, thus
moving both religion and philosophy within the simplicity of this dualistic
motivation paradigm).  The problem is that our current largely illiterate
and media controlled masses believe that "Life is pain" (the usual
translation of Gautama Buddha's "dhukha", which is more properly translated
as "frustration" and is therefore little better than "pain" anyway) and that
life is "a veil of tears" (from our Judeo Christian Islamic heritage) and
that life is meaningless (from our existentialist philosophers).

To all these brilliant purveyors of "life as crap" I say, GOOD RIDDANCE!

The fact we need to convince them that "life is valuable to live" is a sound
argument to NOT do so.

If they honestly believe that death is more valuable than life (?!!!!!), so
be it and good bye!

Next!

George Smith
Elitist and Proud of It.

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