X-Message-Number: 16942
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:01:24 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: war and peace among immortalists

Hi everyone!

Yes, longevity may also have negative features. However we have to be
careful here because a negative feature, just like any other disease,
may end up being scrutinized and worked over until means exist to 
prevent it. It's features of just that kind that make me think that
"immortality" just can't all come at once ie. somebody finds a drug
which does away with aging and all its faults, and we all live 
happily ever after. We'll find diseases which only occur at the age
of 200 and beyond, and have to deal with them. (Don't ask me what thsoe
diseases may be; if we're both over 200 years old someday, then its
time to ask me).

In terms of the setup you envisioned, with a group of people feeling
even more strongly about one another than anyone does now, it's not
at all obvious that such a setup could occur. We're talking about 
people hundreds of years old, with lots of contacts. It would take 
a major effort to get a group to cease its contacts outside and deal
only (or in large part) only with those inside, and for such people
to have the same sorts of feelings about "insiders" and "outsiders"
as people now have who never experienced anything else.

Such groups do exist now, and the existence of such a group in the
future depends a lot on what happens to them now. I do not know of 
any IMMORTALISTS who feel that way, to start with. Those who are not
immortalists may take whatever attitude they wish, but unless they
become immortalists their attitudes will disappear. However, by 
becoming immortalists, such group members will either leave their
group, or the group itself will become a group of immortalists ...
and late or soon, realize that the actions of other nonmembers play
an important role in their lifespans. 

In short, it would at least be difficult for the setup you give to
exist in the first place ...though even difficult things can sometimes
happen. I was arguing that such activities would become scarcer and
scarcer, not that they could not happen at all. Just like all the
various scary alternatives people have raised about immortality, we
may see them hapen to a few people somewhere. (And in happening, they
will provide another case of events which should be considered 
diseases and dealt with as such).

Finally, I am not arguing here that we won't choose some modifications
of ourselves at all. I was arguing only that such modifications may
not even be needed in the particular case of wars and peace. 

			Best wishes and long long life to all,

				Thomas Donaldson

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