X-Message-Number: 16994 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 14:12:29 -0700 From: Subject: INHERENT VALUE July 15, 2001 Re: Do We Have Inherent Value / Will Future Generations Want to Revive Us? In the very asking of the questions is much of the answer. At best, based on what we know, not on what we may speculate or even intelligently theorize, there is doubt as to an affirmative answer to either question. Both questions are ego based, and central to an ego based entity is the primacy of self survival and well being, regardless of how one perceives them best served. In whose interest is it to have frozen humans regarded as having inherent value and for whose ends does a "yes" to the revival question have importance? The frozen ones for sure, but what about the yet to be living? By asking the questions, there is an implied possibility that the future may be similarly ego based, and, we are trying to convince us or them, that in fact we do have inherent value and that it is in the coming generations' very own selfish interest to care about us. But will our survival be a high priority in the future? It not only has to have scientific, intellectual value, and moral value but the future will certainly want to be sure that whoever they revive wont be a threat to them. A positive answer becomes even less likely should the future evolve into a non ego based society. We would be the odd men out, the ones with the inbred antisocial mentality. Hasn't that what recorded history has taught us to this point, and worse, that many humans seem able and willing to harm others, mentally or physically, if for no other reason than they can do it and get away with it. Will the future be able to weed out the good from the bad amongst us, be willing and able to diagnose and cure the societally harmful, or will they likely say, "screw it, the risk is not worth the effort or the reward". Back to the present. Who lives at the bare essentials of survival, with the only luxury being financial preparation for suspension, and spends the rest of their resource to eliminate the suffering or death of our other fellow humans .. fellow humans of inherent value? Quite few, and these few may be the modern day equivalent of the missing link, in terms of morality and view of self. Why should we expect any more from the future than we are prepared to do today? ( The simplistic answer that " the future will have so much technology and life resources that expending a bit of it on us will be insignificant to their budget" is fanciful and wishful thinking). What will motivate them to take a chance with us . to invest in us . to either find it in their interest if they be ego based .. or at least not to find us a threat if they have evolved? Technology will have likely evolved to the point whereby our memories and live motives will be readable. Those who make the first cut may be those who are free of evil deeds, such as murder, free of evil motivations such as "my own life and well being no matter what the price" and free of taking pleasure from others misery. A James Halperin type of truth machine will likely exist. Those who make the first cut will be perceived at least as rehabilitatable. Perhaps it would be wise to put the following statement, in writing, among our suspension documents. "It is my wish to be revived and reincorporated back into society only in the circumstance that such activity will not at that time be deemed likely to cause harm to myself or others". It is possible, that under several of the paths that the life extension movement may take, that cryonics organizations of great wealth and the moral imperative to take care of its own few frozen may exist. These organizations will necessarily be part of some far greater societal structure, and have to live within and abide by its rules, laws, and policies. They will, if for no other reason than their mission, (perhaps like that of Alcors', which is the preservation of individual lives), want to be reasonably certain that those under their care will not prove to be an "embarrassment' when they start to revive us. Mike Darwin wrote a compelling cryonet piece concerning the importance of ones reputation in the old days. I suggest that our individual and collective reputations, as perceived and understood by the future, will have a great influence on how we will be treated. Part of the way this will be known and analyzed is in the very way we treat others, right here on the bits and bytes of our very own public forum, the cryonet. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=16994