X-Message-Number: 17457
From: 
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001 20:43:04 EDT
Subject: Re: Plastination and Other Chemo Alternatives

Thanks, Doug. I assume you have written this, or something similar, to 
Cryonet also, so I am copying to Cryonet too.

The slice or pincushion scenarios are among those I suggested as last resort 
possibilities many years ago, and given the redundancy of many brain 
structures they might work, but it isn't clear that they would be better, all 
in all, than current procedures. No doubt we will learn more in due course.

I don't agree that current procedures leave the body (or the brain, if 
treated similarly) nearly hopeless. In any event, storage costs will come 
down and probably remain down.

Robert Ettinger
Cryonics Institute
Immortalist Society
www.cryonics.org
--------------------------

In a message dated 9/4/01 11:59:14 AM US Mountain Standard Time, 
 writes:

<< Subj:     Plastination and Other Chemo Alternatives
 Date:  9/4/01 11:59:14 AM US Mountain Standard Time
 From:   (Doug Skrecky)
 To:    
 
 Message #17449 From: Mike Perry <>
 
 > Research funds are 
 > scarce, especially when it comes to a bid for immortality, whatever your 
 > preferred methods. But I would like to see *some* serious research devoted 
 > to alternatives to low-temperature storage, again with the goal of 
reanimation.
 > 
   In the past I've examined such alternatives. We do have dried animals
 being revived after a century of storage at room temperature, but these
 creatures possess a number of adaptations to enable them to do this, which
 can not be duplicated in human tissue. Even the basic problem of infusing
 lyoprotectants into tissue is virtually impossible, since without special
 transport mechanisms human tissue can not readily absorb
 disaccharides. Temporary stabilization with fixatives is currently a
 requirement for sugar infusion to have any chance of being achieved.
   There has been some work on reversible chemical fixation, but this
 is still in an early phase of investigation. Even here I am not
 convinced that storage temperatures can be safely increased above
 dry ice temperatures. However all this doom and gloom may be moot.
   Long term storage costs at liquid nitrogen temperature are going to be
 proportional to the space utilized by a "patient". The reduction in size
 from a complete body to that of a human brain (or head) is so considerable
 that (IMHO) it is unlikely the costs associated with such storage 
 will destroy a cryonics storage facility in the next century (or
 two?). At least in the case of Alcor patient preparation costs and
 overhead appear to be the major financial limiting factors.
   It has been explained to me that the cost of storing a brain or head is
 virtually the same as that for a whole body because the whole body still
 has to be prepared for freezing, even if only the head is retained. I
 think that the most alluring avenue for cost reduction lies with
 eliminating the requirement for whole body preparation, with cephalic
 preservation. To be blunt, the damage inflicted on bodies at present is so
 extensive the chances of their revival is negligible. It would be far more
 likely that only the brains would be restored, with the rest of the body
 being replaced, as opposed to repaired. Storage of whole bodies might make
 psychological sense, but technically it is an absurd notion.
   Brain preparation for liquid nitrogen storage must involve a
 considerable dehydration to reduce (eliminate?) destructive ice
 formation. Without an intact vascular system a brain is beleived to be
 impossible to dehydrate in the few hours available before tissue
 deterioration sets in. I am not convinced that is so, for the reason that 
 synthetic perfusion/dehydration pathways could be created quickly and
 cheaply. Slicing a brain into layers is a simple but drastic method for
 achieving this. However I suspect vastly less physical damage needs to be
 inflicted to dehydrate a brain. One intriguing possibility that has not
 been investigated is puncturing an intact brain with tens of thousands of
 microscopic needles. These might turn the tissue into a pin cushion, but
 if the needles are small enough, tissue damage would be minimal. I'm sure
 other ideas will occur to the reader. Perhaps if some method could be
 agreed on, some experimentation might settle the issue for once and for
 all.

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