X-Message-Number: 18689
From: "John de Rivaz" <>
References: <>
Subject: Martinots
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:42:05 -0000

Hi,

Yvan Bozzonetti told me that in France the state does not usually interfere
with the judges (which group appears to be advocating the destruction of the
Martinots), and the EuroParl site says that it does not get involved with
individual state legislatures. However on the basis of "something is better
than nothing" filing a petition with EuroParl is better than nothing.

If a foreign national were to file, the petition would be declared
inadmissible. But someone would read it, and if they get more than about 10
petitions on this subject someone will probably think it is of some
importance, even if the petitions are inadmissible. The chances that they
would take it any further are very, very small, but nevertheless they are
greater than if nothing had been done at all.

As far as I am aware Yvan is the only person in France who reads this list,
and he considers the Martinots to be a lost cause. The case got very little
press coverage there, he says - it seems to be the BBC and the British press
that are more interested.

France was, of course, the site of one of the bloodiest and well organised
mass killings of its own citizens before the 20th century. It is therefore
not surprising that its citizens, who have evolved from those that survived
this, have little interest in the fate of two people that most other people
consider to be dead on the basis that they are not fully informed about the
cryonics idea.

If you are not familiar with the Martinots, do go to
http://www.cryonics-europe.org and read the transcript or watch the video
made in the mid 1980s. From that you will learn that the CO2 freezer was
officially declared a grave or cemetery when Monique was preserved. If
anyone is arguing on behalf of the couple, then he could point this out and
presumably there are laws in France against desecrating graves. There must
presumably be legal procedures that have to be followed if someone is
transferred from one grave to another, or from a grave to be burned. I would
imagine that such procedures would require permissions from family members.

This is also going to Cryonics Europe - if anyone there has further
information, please inform the list.

--
Sincerely, John de Rivaz:      http://www.deRivaz.com  .
http://www.AlecHarleyReeves.com
my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors'
report, an autobio and various other projects:
http://www.geocities.com/longevityrpt
http://www.autopsychoice.com - http://www.cryonics-europe.org -
http://www.porthtowan.com

----- Original Message ----- > Message #18687
> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:12:10 -0700
> From: Mike Perry <>
> Subject: Martinots
> I wanted to submit a petition to stop the destruction of the Martinots as
> John de Rivaz suggested (#18662). However, I looked at the web site
> indicated for the petition system
> (http://www.europarl.eu.int/petition/petition_en.htm), then further at
> their online help (http://www.europarl.eu.int/petition/help_en.htm) and
> found this:
>
> 1. Who can submit a petition?
> You can submit a petition if you are:
>  a European Union citizen,
>  a non-Community resident in a European Union country,
>  a member of a company, organisation or association (natural or legal
> person) with its headquarters in a European Union Member State.
>
> Thus it looks as if I don't qualify to be able to submit a petition (along
> with some others who have submitted). I d still be willing to collaborate
> with someone who is qualified, if anyone is interested.
>
> Mike Perry
>

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