X-Message-Number: 18689 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Martinots Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 12:42:05 -0000 Hi, Yvan Bozzonetti told me that in France the state does not usually interfere with the judges (which group appears to be advocating the destruction of the Martinots), and the EuroParl site says that it does not get involved with individual state legislatures. However on the basis of "something is better than nothing" filing a petition with EuroParl is better than nothing. If a foreign national were to file, the petition would be declared inadmissible. But someone would read it, and if they get more than about 10 petitions on this subject someone will probably think it is of some importance, even if the petitions are inadmissible. The chances that they would take it any further are very, very small, but nevertheless they are greater than if nothing had been done at all. As far as I am aware Yvan is the only person in France who reads this list, and he considers the Martinots to be a lost cause. The case got very little press coverage there, he says - it seems to be the BBC and the British press that are more interested. France was, of course, the site of one of the bloodiest and well organised mass killings of its own citizens before the 20th century. It is therefore not surprising that its citizens, who have evolved from those that survived this, have little interest in the fate of two people that most other people consider to be dead on the basis that they are not fully informed about the cryonics idea. If you are not familiar with the Martinots, do go to http://www.cryonics-europe.org and read the transcript or watch the video made in the mid 1980s. From that you will learn that the CO2 freezer was officially declared a grave or cemetery when Monique was preserved. If anyone is arguing on behalf of the couple, then he could point this out and presumably there are laws in France against desecrating graves. There must presumably be legal procedures that have to be followed if someone is transferred from one grave to another, or from a grave to be burned. I would imagine that such procedures would require permissions from family members. This is also going to Cryonics Europe - if anyone there has further information, please inform the list. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://www.deRivaz.com . http://www.AlecHarleyReeves.com my homepage links to Longevity Report, Fractal Report, music, Inventors' report, an autobio and various other projects: http://www.geocities.com/longevityrpt http://www.autopsychoice.com - http://www.cryonics-europe.org - http://www.porthtowan.com ----- Original Message ----- > Message #18687 > Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 21:12:10 -0700 > From: Mike Perry <> > Subject: Martinots > I wanted to submit a petition to stop the destruction of the Martinots as > John de Rivaz suggested (#18662). However, I looked at the web site > indicated for the petition system > (http://www.europarl.eu.int/petition/petition_en.htm), then further at > their online help (http://www.europarl.eu.int/petition/help_en.htm) and > found this: > > 1. Who can submit a petition? > You can submit a petition if you are: > a European Union citizen, > a non-Community resident in a European Union country, > a member of a company, organisation or association (natural or legal > person) with its headquarters in a European Union Member State. > > Thus it looks as if I don't qualify to be able to submit a petition (along > with some others who have submitted). I d still be willing to collaborate > with someone who is qualified, if anyone is interested. > > Mike Perry > Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=18689