X-Message-Number: 1873
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 20:29:15 PST
From:  (John A. Gregor)
Subject: CRYONICS Panic in the old boys' club

Just for the record...

I want to make the following points (in no particular order):

The thought that postings from Clarissa Wells were anything but what
they claimed to be never crossed my mind until several folks on Cryonet
decided to attack her identity rather than try to deal with the issues
raised.  A morally and intellectually superior move if ever I saw one.

Keith Henson's posting had inconsistencies one could drive a truck
through.  To think that only the evil Mike Trotsky, oops, Mike Darwin is
fiendishly clever enough to see them is really paranoid.

Come on boys, does the prospect of having your world-view rattled by a
*gasp* GIRL send you into such an irrational tizzy that the only
response you can come up with is to go on a witch hunt for "real"
author?  Lame, lame, lame.  As if the origin of the observations and
questions raised somehow have some bearing on their validity.  A lot
of formerly faceless names on this list are getting some very ugly
caricatures associated with them in my mind as a result of this.  I
doubt I'm the only one.

I have posted to Cryonet before as have many other semi-lurkers.  I'll
bet none have gotten "Who are you?" messages.  The "tightly-knit
cryonics community" story is BS.  It's a well known phenomenon that
women on the net receive uninvited "Who are you/talk to me please/wanna
date" types of correspondence merely for posting with a feminine
sounding user ID or name.  Boys will be boys I guess.

I would like to nominate Michael Riskin's line to CW:

    "Let me know when you are ready to come out of the closet and play
    with the big boys."

for the 1993 award for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty in
the face of rational argument.  A real class act there Michael.  You do
cryonics proud!  You sure you haven't already been frozen for 60 years
or so?

I agree that if Alcor's board seriously believes in the viability of
cryonic suspension, then it is an immoral act on their part to withold
membership/suspension from anyone who pays the going rate.  This does
not mean that people cannot be barred from service on the board or
(mis)representing Alcor in any fashion.  Legal mechanisms are already
in place to deal with those who misrepresent themselves as agents of
Alcor (restraining orders, civil damages, criminal fraud, etc.).  Alcor
is not a restaurant.  If it wants to act like one then then it is not
the branch medicine that it claims cryonics to be.  It's a club.

I agree with much of what CW has written, but not entirely.  She does
have a good mind for spotting logical flaws in arguments.  She also
constructs reasonably sound logical arguments (and excellent prose
(which eliminates many from suspicion of being "the forger")).  This
list would be that much richer with her continued input.  I have,
however, gotten the feeling that parts of her world view are propped up
only with emotional argument and that they won't tolerate closer
scrutiny.  It's something I've seen in other cryonicists (and
extropians in particular).  I'd be happy to discuss those issues with
her should she stay on the group (or should someone else bring it up).

Would both sides PLEASE stop citing the Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma
every time they want to make a point?  Get a grip folks, it was a
specific simulation with a very, VERY artificial set of rules.  The
world is not a simple COOPERATE-DEFECT system with a [[3,5],[0,1]]
payoff.  Change the parameters even a little bit and tit-for-tat doesn't
win, doesn't even come close.  It goes EXTINCT, quickly.  Tolerating
bozo's for members is NOT the same as playing Always-Cooperates (aka
SUCKER) in IPD.  Check out some later works on modifications to IPD.
Referneces on request.

Stay far away from LOX (liquid oxygen)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-JohnG
-- 

         John A. Gregor	     USmail: College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences
          E-mail: 	     Oregon State University
Voice #: +1 503 737-3022	     COAS Admin Bldg. #104
  Fax #: +1 503 737-2064	     Corvallis, OR  97331-5503

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