X-Message-Number: 18761 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Avoiding Dissection Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 16:14:36 -0000 > From: "Joseph W. Morgan" <> > We need to develop an effective legal defense against this interference so we can get a prompt cool-down. > This is probably impossible to achieve within the framework of the legal system in any country. However public opinion, if informed as to what a post mortem dissection really is, is likely to be against them being compulsory. It is public opinion that we need to work on,. This is borne out by recent discussions on the Internet newsgroup sci.cryonics which have been going on for some weeks now linked to five other newsgroups. Many authoritarians have joined the debate, but they seem unwilling to face the issues and instead hurl threats and abuse. It is clear that they must know they have no ethical argument for compulsion, so they resort to verbal obscenities and threats. There is a formidable array of people on the same side as the cryonics people, who are a mere gain of sand by comparison of numbers - these are religious people who beleive in treating dead bodies with respect. Some beleive that it is their duty to present their bodies in such a manner as to make Jesus' job or resurrection as easy as possible. Another large body of people consider the feelings of relatives of the deceased to be of importance. Also many are aware that if an individual goes through life worried by the fact that he could be dissected his freedom is being abused regardless of whether his reasons are "rational" or not. I would urge more readers of CyoNet to join in this debate on sci.cryonics, and keep this thread going. The longer it runs, the more likely the subject is going to come to the attention of the news media. I would also urge readers of CryoNet to inform others of the web site http://www.autopsychoice.com where you can read links to government sites on this subject as well as cast votes on an Internet polling service. > To make matters worse, using "legal" and "prompt" in the same sentence is a form of oxymoron. yes indeed. > > From: "Solion" <> > Okay , This sounds damn frightening . How often does this happen? > and what is being done about it? Has any group worked towards a list > of ME's that are cryonic friendly? > > From your description it sounds like it is a compleat crapshoot as to if > we can be suspended in any reasonable time. and that we might as well forget it. > You know as well as anyone that the odds of being recoverd in such as situation as > described is probly on the "impossible" side of things. This is not a reason not to try. As long as even just one person gets through a cryopreservation and reanimation, then history will be altered, and those that have dissected people otherwise bound for cryopreservation can go down in history as figures of hate and disgust. They need to be aware that some descendants of recent hate figures have chosen to edit their genes out of humanity by not having children themselves. > So what are we to do? One thing that people could do is to leave instructions that if their cryopreservation is officially halted, to list the names and family details of the officials involved in a large advertisement in a prominent newspapers that are widely held by libraries. This is a good way of sending a message to the future - if there are revivals, then historians will find these messages. If the officials have refused to read disp[ositions by scientists that cryonics may work, then record this fact also. > If we can get an ME's approval . then the Cooling helmet > (aka VPS ) will be a simple resolution to the problem. If not? You are saying that > I and everyone else will rot. SO again . is there anything I or anyone can do? Or > are well all just doomed. Hell at this point I am thinking bribery As I said, it is not a reason to give up just because it is hard to succeed. > I think everyone should take a moment and think about what can be done. Personally > The idea is simple, record a 20 minute video message onto VHS for family members, doctors > and most importantly the coroner. This is a message to anyone who would stand in the > way of your suspension. Send the video to me (and a couple of bucks for shipping it back) > and I will burn it in multiple formats and codecs onto CD for you. Nice idea, but the debate on sci.cryonics has indicated already what could happen - the officials will refuse to watch the video. On sci.cryonics, a doubter who wrote from the Welcome Trust, was offered Ralph Merkle's article on cryptanalysis and cryonics. http://merkle.com/merkleDir/cryptoCryo.html He refused to read it, saying he will not read creationist science either. Nevertheless this can be tried, if nothing else, it will harden the case for making the officials into hate figures in the future if they refuse to watch it. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://www.deRivaz.com : http://www.AlecHarleyReeves.com http://www.longevity-report.com : http://www.autopsychoice.com : http://www.cryonics-europe.org http://www.porthtowan.com Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=18761