X-Message-Number: 18951
From: 
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:23:06 EDT
Subject: Crossing Jordan

In a message dated 4/22/02 2:01:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
 writes:

> Yahoo truncated the end of your message, but I infer
>  that a cryopatient was being autopsied?

No, this is not correct. 

>  You have mentioned before that we cryos overestimate
>  our chances of a good death, and autopsy would
>  defintely be a bad death.  However, as a counter to
>  your pessimism in that area, the bulk of your
>  experience comes from 15-25 years ago (yes?), when the
>  percentage of autopsies was greater....

No, I stopped providing active services in 1998-9. However, I have also kept 
close watch on the type of cases being done over the past decade. This is 
largely only possible for Alcor who reports meaningful basic case data. CI 
usually simply states that "no information will be released due to family 
requests for privacy. Release of technical data does not have to compromise 
family privacy, nor does publication of statistics showing warm and cold 
ischemic times, time postmortem until some kind of care was given, and % of 
patients autopsied or subjected to long delays because they were Coroner or 
ME cases (even if not autopsied).

The numbers remain about as I've said. 

Here is a recent partial case break down from Alcor the date of the first 
case is the start of the period covered through the present based on data I 
have (which is probably not complete):

06/2000: AT NEED. Liver failure secondary to advanced cancer. Prompt CPS and 
stabilization. CPA perfusion reported to have gone well. Overseas patient 
transported to US on dry ice.

A-1261: MEMBER. Unwitnessed arrest secondary to disseminated cancer. No 
onsite stabilization. Poorly packed in ice by local mortician. Arrived at 
facility at ~+10 C @ ~30 hours postmortem. Abdominal decomposition underway.

A-XXXX: MEMBER. Elderly gentleman who suffered massive stroke. Brain dead or 
minimal brain EEG activity with clinical clinical signs of brain death (no 
flow to brain) for ~24 hours prior to arrest. Prolonged postarrest 
normothermic ischemia.

A-1894: MEMBER. Auto accident victim with massive head trauma including basal 
skull fracture. Coroner's case. Released without autopsy. 30+ hour delay to 
arrival at Alcor due to logistic constraints: airline schedules, weather, 
suddenness of death.

A-1705: MEMBER. Hospice death from cancer. Relocated to Phoenix. Witnessed 
arrest with prompt efforts at stabilization. CPA perfusion went well.

A-1756: MEMBER. Home hospice cancer patient. Developed massive airway 
occlusive bleeding with ~4 minutes of start of CPS. Ice bag cooled. ~ 3 hours 
of ischemia at ~30 degrees C (37 C is normal body temperature).

A-1894: MEMBER? Patient with long history of end stage Alzheimer's, averbal 
and uncommunicative for several years before death, massive loss of 
neocortical structure, cortical surface atypical in appearance on opening 
burr holes. 2 hours of measured near normothermic ischemia (~27 C) before 
perfusion cooling initiated. Primary, structure-obliterative end stage brain 
disease.

A-1876: RECENT MEMBER. Hospital patient. Prompt postmortem CPS but effective 
ventilation not possible due to lung disease and pulmonary edema, promptly 
medicated, rapidly cooled, blood washed out and transported via private jet 
aircraft. CPA perfusion started ~7 hours post arrest. CPA perfusion went 
reasonably well.

Gary Praetor: MEMBER. Long time LEF employee. Unwitnessed sudden cardiac 
death. Found in rigor b next of kin. Coroner's case but released with autopsy 
(thanks to Bill Falloon). Effective postmortem CPS and stabilization not 
possible. CPA perfusion begun ~9-12 hours after arrest. Problematic CPA 
perfusion with superficial and cerebral edema.

John Perry: CC MEMBER: Police Officer killed in WTC attacks. Remains 
recovered ~6 months after the incident. Not cryopreserved due to family 
objections and influence with NYC ME.

Lindsey Harkness, Jr. MEMBER. Business man killed in WTC attacks. Remains not 
recovered.


>  Regarding the percentage of hospital deaths autopsied,
>  here is a quote from some online source:
>  
>  "Consider that in 1945 half of all deaths were
>  routinely autopsied: today, that number is closer to
>  10 percent. This morbid art --practiced by humans
>  since 300 B.C. and modernized by German scientists in
>  the mid-1800s--is itself dying. "
>  
>  So, I think you are more pessimistic, perhaps, than is
>  warranted (feel free to correct me...). 

Hospital deaths are misleading. Many people die suddenly out of hospital or 
die in hospital using "brain death" criteria. Roughly 25% of people die 
outside of hospital from accident, suicide, or sudden cardiac death. We must 
now also add terrorist acts to this list. These numbers have not changed and 
they cause direct trauma, medicolegal delay and autopsy.
  
>  Also, there have not been that many cryos under
>  contract who have died, and been frozen or otherwise,
>  and a significant number of them were **suicides**.  I
>  think the high percent of cryos who suicided unduly
>  influences the numbers and your opinion....

There is a disproportionate number of suicide deaths in cryonics compared to 
those in the general population. However, the number is not overwhelming. I 
have personally dealt with only two such cases and know of perhaps half a 
dozen more. Several of these people were not cryopreserved, but I still count 
them.

Mike Darwin

Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=18951