X-Message-Number: 19010 From: Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:05:53 EDT Subject: Re: CryoNet #19005 - #19007 --part1_15a.d42cd0d.2a02afd1_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 05/02/2002 5:03:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, writes: Steve Lacher wrote: > > Robert....... > > Don't feel even the slightest bit silly celebrating getting "your lottery > ticket"! > > I remember the day when I received my bracelet and necklace, > and put the bracelet on for the first (and for me, with one exception > of having the chain resized) and last time. > > I know this list isn't the exclusive province of atheists, but I'm one. > I later told a good religious friend of mine that on that day that putting > the bracelet on, > I suddenly felt different. Not immortal, or all powerful, or anything > silly like that, I just felt > different. I told her that I realized that I'd done everything which is > currently in my power > to do to defeat death. It gave (and still gives) me this wonderful feeling > that I've seen > to my future. She told me that that feeling of comfort, and pride is > similar to what she > feels each day because she has faith in God. > > This was a big revelation for me, because as an atheist, I have no faith. > I had no faith in God, > no faith in flimflams, trickery, magic, or any other thing which isn't > based on rational > thought. And I STILL don't! > > Certainly "getting the bracelet" is no guarantee that biostasis will work. > It's (to quote a book > most of us have read) "a leaky lifeboat to the future" at best. So no, I > don't have the unquestioning > certainty of faith that I'll one day be immortal. > > But what I have now is hope. > > Welcome aboard the lifeboat, Robert, and pass the champagne! > --Steven Lacher, > ALCOR member A-1865 > > I had to respond with a hearty "Amen" to that, or the equivalent that skeptic/agnostic/athiestic/rationalist/humanist/extropian/ realistic type folks might use. Steven, I literally got chills reading your posting. You have identified one of the significant "UPSIDES" of signing up NOW for cryonic suspension, and handling the necessary paperwork and funding mechanisms to assure that you have a HOPE of a "good" suspension. This is a CURRENT, real world benefit to signing now. It is attitudinal in nature, and, I think, provides the equivalent of what "faith" does for those of a more religious worldview. This is a concept I have tried to promote in a low key, subtle way. Attempting to do this without coming across like a charlatan, asking people to substitute one unproven faith for a different one, is a subtle and nuanced point. It is nuanced by a basic understanding sometimes well expressed by George Smith, that we don't know WHAT we don't know regarding future technologies, and that it is simply rationale to be MORE positive in the face of this lack of knowledge. This attitude, I submit, is qualitatively different from "faith" as practiced in religions throughout the world. And "faith" in future science and technology is, in my opinion, a bit different and perhaps more rational than "faith" in one or more deities or theologies. Cryonics is not a religion, and certainly not a cult. But, as others have pointed out here, HOPE is a positive human and HUMANISTIC value. I don't always agree with George Smith. But the Robert Moore, Steven Lacher, and George Smith postings over the last few days have struck a vital and emotional note regarding the positive benefits, right here and now, of being a fully signed and funded "cryonaut." So, instead of "Amen! Preach on, brothers," let me instead add a hearty and heart felt "THANK YOU" for identifying and promoting BENEFIT of being a cryonicist. It is an outward expression of a worldview that makes sense to thinking human beings. Rudi Hoffman My website: rudihoffman.com Member Financial Planner's Association, Certified Planner Member ALCOR Life Extension Foundation alcor.org Member Libertarian Party libertarianparty.org Member National Rifle Association nra.org Member Extropy Institute extropy.org Senior Associate Foresight Institute foresight.org Board Member Port Orange Chamber of Commerce posd.com Board Member Daytona Salvation Army salvationarmy.org --part1_15a.d42cd0d.2a02afd1_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" [ AUTOMATICALLY SKIPPING HTML ENCODING! ] Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=19010