X-Message-Number: 19010
From: 
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 11:05:53 EDT
Subject: Re: CryoNet #19005 - #19007

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In a message dated 05/02/2002 5:03:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
 writes:

Steve Lacher wrote:

> 
> Robert.......
> 
> Don't feel even the slightest bit silly celebrating getting "your lottery 
> ticket"!
> 
> I remember the day when I received my bracelet and necklace, 
> and put the bracelet on for the first (and for me, with one exception
> of having the chain resized) and last time.
> 
> I know this list isn't the exclusive province of atheists, but I'm one.  
> I later told a good religious friend of mine that on that day that putting 
> the bracelet on, 
> I suddenly felt different.  Not immortal, or all powerful, or anything 
> silly like that, I just felt
> different.  I told her that I realized that I'd done everything which is 
> currently in my power
> to do to defeat death.  It gave (and still gives) me this wonderful feeling 
> that I've seen
> to my future.  She told me that that feeling of comfort, and pride is 
> similar to what she
> feels each day because she has faith in God.  
> 
> This was a big revelation for me, because as an atheist, I have no faith.  
> I had no faith in God,
> no faith in flimflams, trickery, magic, or any other thing which isn't 
> based on rational
> thought.  And I STILL don't!  
> 
> Certainly "getting the bracelet" is no guarantee that biostasis will work.  
> It's (to quote a book
> most of us have read) "a leaky lifeboat to the future" at best.  So no, I 
> don't have the unquestioning
> certainty of faith that I'll one day be immortal.
> 
> But what I have now is hope.
> 
> Welcome aboard the lifeboat, Robert, and pass the champagne!
> --Steven Lacher,
> ALCOR member A-1865
> 
> 
I had to respond with a hearty "Amen" to that, or the equivalent that 
skeptic/agnostic/athiestic/rationalist/humanist/extropian/
realistic type folks might use.

Steven, I literally got chills reading your posting.  

You have identified one of the significant "UPSIDES" of signing up NOW for 
cryonic suspension, and handling the necessary paperwork and funding 
mechanisms to assure that you have a HOPE of a "good" suspension. 

This is a CURRENT, real world benefit to signing now.  It is attitudinal in 
nature, and, I think, provides the equivalent of what "faith" does for those 
of a more religious worldview.

This is a concept I have tried to promote in a low key, subtle way.  
Attempting to do this without coming across like a charlatan, asking people 
to substitute one unproven faith for a different one, is a subtle and nuanced 
point.  It is nuanced by a basic understanding sometimes well expressed by 
George Smith, that we don't know WHAT we don't know regarding future 
technologies, and that it is simply rationale to be MORE positive in the face 
of this lack of knowledge.  This attitude, I submit, is qualitatively 
different from "faith" as practiced in religions throughout the world.

And "faith" in future science and technology is, in my opinion, a bit 
different and perhaps more rational than "faith" in one or more deities or 
theologies.

Cryonics is not a religion, and certainly not a cult.  But, as others have 
pointed out here, HOPE is a positive human and HUMANISTIC value.  I don't 
always agree with George Smith.  But the Robert Moore, Steven Lacher, and 
George Smith postings over the last few days have struck a vital and 
emotional note regarding the positive benefits, right here and now, of being 
a fully signed and funded "cryonaut."  

So, instead of "Amen! Preach on, brothers," let me instead add a hearty and 
heart felt "THANK YOU" for identifying and promoting BENEFIT of being a 
cryonicist.  It is an outward expression of a worldview that makes sense to 
thinking human beings. 


Rudi Hoffman
My website:  rudihoffman.com
Member Financial Planner's Association, Certified Planner 
Member ALCOR Life Extension Foundation  alcor.org
Member Libertarian Party    libertarianparty.org
Member National Rifle Association  nra.org
Member Extropy Institute   extropy.org
Senior Associate Foresight Institute  foresight.org
Board Member Port Orange Chamber of Commerce posd.com
Board Member Daytona Salvation Army  salvationarmy.org

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