X-Message-Number: 1904 Date: 06 Mar 93 03:02:15 EST From: Paul Wakfer <> Subject: CRYONICS Ice Man Stichk From: Mike Darwin To: All Re: Ice Man Stichk Date: 5 March, 1993 Brian Wowk worries about my eyes: I do intend to wear a helmet to protect my eyes, although I repeat: I've had my head in -135*C environments before without ill effects: your ears get mighty cold mighty fast. Since I will be breathing DRY oxygen I won't need to worry so much about fogging -- I also plan to bleed dry oxygen through the helmet. Brian also suggests warming the room temporarily. BAD IDEA. You don't want to cause fluctuations in patient temperature and that will happen when you warm, even if they are insulated. What is more, as soon as you say you'll only need to be in for 10 minutes you'll find you need to be in for longer. Besides, people will want and need to go into the room on a more casual basis than you might think. Why do the experiment? Because it is the simplest way to prove it can be done and to discover the problems that will invariably crop up. Plus, I am convinced that future of -135*C storage lies in large room sized enclosures. The simplest way to manage things in that environment is to be able to go into and work in it. You'll notice that things go wrong, even in space, and PEOPLE are needed to fix them. In a private posting to me Clarissa Wells wondered if I was wanting to do this experiment to "show I had the right stuff..." No, the reason I want to do it is because I think it needs to be done and I don't see any line of anxious-to-do-it volunteers. Steve Harris suggests getting a professional outfitter to provide the gear. Great idea. That is exactly what I will do. Could you get me their address(es)? Steve Jackson writes about a blue building insulation that is very tough. The material you are probably talking about is Dow Styrofoam -- the real stuff, not the stuff coffee cups are made of, which in reality is something called expanded polystyrene. Great minds think alike. I intend to use exactly that for my soles. My first experience with the material came when I was 16 and building my first dry ice box for cooling humans. I used Dow Styrofoam on the outside to save on costs and urethane on the inside. That box ultimately got sold to Trans Time who used it on a passle of patients and then sold it to a fellow in New Zealand where, as far as I know it still resides (an interesting piece of cryonics trivia). Steve Harris worries about cracks in the foam. Forget it. John Day, Hugh Hixon and I all independently solved this problem. We carefully layered SLABS of foam and used dacron wool to stuff the joins. In a recent letter to me Bob Ettinger indicates that his co-worker/engineer Andy Zawaki came up with the same strategy but using glass wool and caulk. Hugh Hixon and I implemented this strategy when we built the Alcor cool down box using a cryogenic foam known as Trymer and dacron wool which we purchased from an upholster shop in a big roll. Hugh did some calculations on a napkin (I think) predicting the theoretical limits of efficiency of the insulation. We then built the box. We came within 4% of our calculated theoretical limit. A pretty impressive engineering feat if I may so. Forget about cracks. And by the way, Trymer is rated all the way to -196*C and will work fine to enclose a cold room. Hugh, if you are out there and listening, would you be willing to repeat those calculations on a room sized enclosure using the Trymer cryogenic formulation we used for the Alcor box? If you are willing please show your work. Also, I guess we need to come up with some DIMENSIONS for this room. Any thoughts out there? Now only one problem remains: Alcor. Will they let me do the experiment, or will I have to do it myself under less desirable and more costly circumstances? Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=1904