X-Message-Number: 19094
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:10:30 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: CryoNet #19081 - #19093

To Toby Christensen, for his questions:

Much more can be said on this issue, but briefly, cryonics does not 
NOW allow revival because it uses much colder temperatures than those
used in the descriptions of dogs, rats, or people being cooled and
then revived. Those colder temperatures do more damage, even if we
use cryoprotectants (which HELP but not completely).

One major virtue of vitrification rather than freezing is that it
shows signs that it will do considerably less damage than freezing
with cryoprotectants. The main kind of damage done by freezing is
mechanical: crystallization of the ice forms bodies which move
the material of which our cells are made, often tearing it. An
explicit description of what has been observed is in Appendix B
of CRYONICS: REACHING FOR TOMORROW, B. Wowk and M. Darwin. The 
latest discussion of cryonics from Alcor, ALCOR LIFE EXTENSION
FOUNDATION: AN INTRODUCTION, JB Lemler, MD, does not give the
same detailed discussion. The merits of vitrification come directly
from the simple fact that vitrified solutions do not form into
crystals and therefore will not cause the damage of frozen
solutions.

As for "death", it seems unlikely that even those frozen are
literally dead. We know from other animals, even insects, that
vital processes may stop completely without death of the animal.
Those now frozen have all their vital processes stopped, a minor
issue, but much more important, they have also sustained damage
due to their cause of "death" and their freezing. That damage
may or may not make them unrepairable at ANY future time; if
it does, you may consider them "dead", but to do so you'll also
have to know about all future repair technologies, those of 
2200, 2300,2500,3500, etc etc ... you get the idea. It is those
who were not frozen, and thus decayed slowly or rapidly to 
earth, who can be said to be dead quite confidently.

I hope this starts to answer your questions. I live in Australia
too, and if you cannot get the Alcor publication I refer to 
above (the one by Wowk and Darwin) I can LEND you my copy
by mail.

		Best wishes and long long life,

			Thomas Donaldson

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