X-Message-Number: 19094 Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:10:30 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #19081 - #19093 To Toby Christensen, for his questions: Much more can be said on this issue, but briefly, cryonics does not NOW allow revival because it uses much colder temperatures than those used in the descriptions of dogs, rats, or people being cooled and then revived. Those colder temperatures do more damage, even if we use cryoprotectants (which HELP but not completely). One major virtue of vitrification rather than freezing is that it shows signs that it will do considerably less damage than freezing with cryoprotectants. The main kind of damage done by freezing is mechanical: crystallization of the ice forms bodies which move the material of which our cells are made, often tearing it. An explicit description of what has been observed is in Appendix B of CRYONICS: REACHING FOR TOMORROW, B. Wowk and M. Darwin. The latest discussion of cryonics from Alcor, ALCOR LIFE EXTENSION FOUNDATION: AN INTRODUCTION, JB Lemler, MD, does not give the same detailed discussion. The merits of vitrification come directly from the simple fact that vitrified solutions do not form into crystals and therefore will not cause the damage of frozen solutions. As for "death", it seems unlikely that even those frozen are literally dead. We know from other animals, even insects, that vital processes may stop completely without death of the animal. Those now frozen have all their vital processes stopped, a minor issue, but much more important, they have also sustained damage due to their cause of "death" and their freezing. That damage may or may not make them unrepairable at ANY future time; if it does, you may consider them "dead", but to do so you'll also have to know about all future repair technologies, those of 2200, 2300,2500,3500, etc etc ... you get the idea. It is those who were not frozen, and thus decayed slowly or rapidly to earth, who can be said to be dead quite confidently. I hope this starts to answer your questions. I live in Australia too, and if you cannot get the Alcor publication I refer to above (the one by Wowk and Darwin) I can LEND you my copy by mail. Best wishes and long long life, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=19094