X-Message-Number: 19724 Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:04:33 -0700 From: "John Grigg" <> Subject: Religion and Cryonics(once again!) Thomas Donaldson wrote: What kind of just God would attack those who simply pay Him no attention at all? To do so suggests that God has some kind of personality defect, needing constant assurance from EVERYONE that He is worshipful by worshipping him. Such a God becomes far less than worth worshipping in the first place. If it isn't safe not to worship, then we should rightly spend our efforts on ways to avoid this immature Creature. (end) First of all, I believe God wants us to engage in worship for our benefit, not God's. Worship keeps us mindful of the gospel of salvation, and our need to live it. Within the Mormon(Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) concept of things, those people who never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in this life(or at least never had it properly presented to them), will get a chance in the next. Mark Buddle wrote: On the other hand a group like the Godless Americans is huge, it's time we hitch our wagon onto theirs and star to gain influence and power through numbers. (end) Bad move. It would associate us too much with atheism, which would alienate much of middle american society. If an individual member of the cryonics movement wants to be active in atheistic organizations, that is his/her business. But it should not be done by Alcor, CI, or the other prominent cryonics organizations. Rick Potvin wrote: GOD AS METAPHOR "Capax Dei" is man's mission to become increasing God-like, with dominion over the the universe, according to Nicholas de Cusa, a primary reference for any scientific discussion of God. (end) Sounds very interesting! I will have to look at it. Joe Dees wrote: I do not subscribe to a radical view of life extension which rules out all risk taking. I don't see a whole lot of point to remaining alive unless I allow myself the freedom to take risks for the sake of goals that I consider important. But thank you for your concern; I will certainly watch my back. (end) Having recently attended the funeral of some acquaintances who were mountain climbers, I can understand what you mean. I was told privately that despite their great experience, top quality equipment, and knowledge, they got very careless, and that cost them their lives. It really irritated me to hear repeatedly how "God had decided it was their time to go." They made foolish decisions where they really knew better, and the last gamble they took cost them their lives. I feel so sorry for the wives and young kids left behind. Joseph wrote: I agree with Marks posting, cryonet#19648, Alcor and CI are barking up the wrong tree if they think religions are their allies. The only reason religions have not attacked cryonics much is because we are such a micro-minority that we are almost nonexistant. With the Ted Williams saga I look for that to change. (end) Will "fighting back" in a similar style to any would-be opponents really help? Or will putting forth our case in a restrained way show EVERYONE we have a message worth hearing, and doing something about. There are certainly moderate and liberal denominations/faiths out there which would probably welcome a fruitful dialogue with cryonics leadership. We need to build on common ground with them. I do see cryonics being targeted by ONLY CERTAIN groups due to the Ted Williams story. At most Evangelical bookstores the "attack the cults" section generates a great deal of income. My own faith is a very popular moneymaking topic. Often these books are prime examples of yellow journalism. I expect writers like David Hunt, John Ankerburg, and Bob Larson to soon be cranking out books and videos "revealing the truth" behind cryonics. But even this will work to our advantage if we handle it right. If you think about it, they will be educating their people about us. Yes, in a negative way, but it may bear fruit down the road. I am very glad Jerry Lemler, Robert Ettinger, and Saul Kent have all so far shown restraint when it comes to dealing with religion. best wishes, John __________________________________________________________ Win a First Class Trip to Hawaii to Vacation Elvis Style! http://r.lycos.com/r/sagel_mail/http://www.elvis.lycos.com/sweepstakes Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=19724