X-Message-Number: 19724
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 16:04:33 -0700
From: "John Grigg" <>
Subject: Religion and Cryonics(once again!)

Thomas Donaldson wrote:
What kind of just God would 
attack those who simply pay Him no attention at all? To do so
suggests that God has some kind of personality defect, needing
constant assurance from EVERYONE that He is worshipful by
worshipping him. Such a God becomes far less than worth 
worshipping in the first place. If it isn't safe not to worship,
then we should rightly spend our efforts on ways to avoid this
immature Creature.
(end)


First of all, I believe God wants us to engage in worship for our benefit, not 
God's.  Worship keeps us mindful of the gospel of salvation, and our need to 
live it.


Within the Mormon(Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) concept of 
things, those people who never heard the gospel of Jesus Christ in this life(or 
at least never had it properly presented to them), will get a chance in the 
next.  

Mark Buddle wrote:
On the other hand a group like the Godless Americans 
is huge, it's time we hitch our wagon onto theirs and star to gain 
influence and power through numbers.
(end)


Bad move.  It would associate us too much with atheism, which would alienate 
much of middle american society.  


If an individual member of the cryonics movement wants to be active in atheistic
organizations, that is his/her business.  But it should not be done by Alcor, 
CI, or the other prominent cryonics organizations.

Rick Potvin wrote:
GOD AS METAPHOR
"Capax Dei" is man's mission to become increasing God-like, with
dominion over the the universe, according to Nicholas de Cusa, a primary
reference for any scientific discussion of God.
(end)

Sounds very interesting!  I will have to look at it.

Joe Dees wrote:
I do not subscribe to a radical view of life extension which rules out 
all risk taking. I don't see a whole lot of point to remaining alive 
unless I allow myself the freedom to take risks for the sake of goals 
that I consider important. But thank you for your concern; I will 
certainly watch my back.
(end)


Having recently attended the funeral of some acquaintances who were mountain 
climbers, I can understand what you mean.  I was told privately that despite 
their great experience, top quality equipment, and knowledge, they got very 
careless, and that cost them their lives.  


It really irritated me to hear repeatedly how "God had decided it was their time
to go."  They made foolish decisions where they really knew better, and the 
last gamble they took cost them their lives.  I feel so sorry for the wives and 
young kids left behind.           

Joseph wrote:
I agree with Marks posting, cryonet#19648, Alcor and CI are barking up
the wrong tree if they think religions are their allies. The only reason
religions have not attacked cryonics much is because we are such a
micro-minority that we are almost nonexistant. With the Ted Williams saga
I look for that to change.
(end)


Will "fighting back" in a similar style to any would-be opponents really help?  
Or will putting forth our case in a restrained way show EVERYONE we have a 
message worth hearing, and doing something about.  


There are certainly moderate and liberal denominations/faiths out there which 
would probably welcome a fruitful dialogue with cryonics leadership.  We need to
build on common ground with them.  


I do see cryonics being targeted by ONLY CERTAIN groups due to the Ted Williams 
story.  At most Evangelical bookstores the "attack the cults" section generates 
a great deal of income.  My own faith is a very popular moneymaking topic.  
Often these books are prime examples of yellow journalism.  I expect writers 
like David Hunt, John Ankerburg, and Bob Larson to soon be cranking out books 
and videos "revealing the truth" behind cryonics.  


But even this will work to our advantage if we handle it right.  If you think 
about it, they will be educating their people about us.  Yes, in a negative way,
but it may bear fruit down the road.


I am very glad Jerry Lemler, Robert Ettinger, and Saul Kent have all so far 
shown restraint when it comes to dealing with religion.  

best wishes,

John


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