X-Message-Number: 20262 From: Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:16:51 +0100 Subject: oligarchy of immortals > CryoNet - Mon 7 Oct 2002 > > Message #20256 > From: "Mark Plus" <> > Subject: "The future of death" > Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 13:47:40 -0700 > http://www.btexact.com/ideas/futurology?doc=21053 > > The future of death > Biological > death might still be unpleasant, but it need no longer be a career > barrier. I found the article an interesting summation of the transhumanist position. However, I found it disturbing that the author considered the main problem with death to be the way it interrupts careers! Perhaps I have misunderstood, or perhaps my priorities are different and I do not consider a career to be the most important thing in life, or the interruption of a career the reason why death is so terrible. Thinking about the importance of a career lead me to consider the issue of money and longevity, It is likely that this issue has been discussed at cryonet before, but I am just a recent subscriber so I will air my thoughts. Feel free to direct me to an archived discussion of this issue if this is passe. It seems likely to me that any future people that benefit from extreme longevity are going to have to be rich. Like today, longevity treatment/tech is sure to be expensive; the cost of cryonics, certain drugs and medical treatment, even good food and the other elements that support good health, will only be available for the comfortably rich at best and wealthy at worst. Though I expect treatment/tech to become cheaper and reach a mass market as it becomes more dated, I am dubious that immortality will be available for everyone or even many people. Is it likely that a wealthy elite of immortals, all with a mono-maniacal work-ethic, political power and tons of excess capital will maintain their hold on wealth and power by living longer and longer? Perhaps this could lead to an enlightened oligarchy, though this would assume a beneficial relationship between age, reason and wisdom (will greater processing power magically make people more enlightened? Or more stubborn?). Perhaps instead the world will be home (or a launch pad, or a resource) to a technological vanguard who will leave behind or exploit the worlds mortals. Perhaps by then cultures will have sorted out their inequalities, but I find this unlikely. Extreme longevity treatments will probably happen soon and it seems likely and strange that our species may succeed in overcoming the most basic, ancient and constant problem of death, without succeeding in solving the younger and more variable problems of inequality, poverty and group violence. Even if longevity technology could be cheap enough for all to afford it (or at least those not starving in crowded cities or blasted deserts or on welfare or under the heel of war or dictatorship or Western interests), then would those with vested interests *allow* the spread? Certainly, some transhumanists have claimed progress in inevitable and unstoppable, but even slowing down these advances (which so-called pro-life legislation does for example) could be personally disastrous for the people living and fearing now. I also couldn't help to comment on this: > Message #20257 > Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 15:40:41 -0700 > From: James Swayze <> > Subject: Energy and leadership to reach the future > References: <> > > One also wonders how different the middle east situation would be if > we and the rest of the world could live without their oil. They'd sure > have less money to fund terrorism with and buy weapons of any level of > destruction with. Let's take the wind from their sails by weaning > ourselves from their oil. Weaning the West from Middle Eastern oil would give "us" less reason to invade, sanction and generally interfer with the arab nations ie: seize their oil (http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,786332,00.html). It's not as if terrorism springs from no-where, it is mainly a response to oppression. (http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12919) Anton --------------------------------------- http://www.noumenal.net/exiles Bush's close ties with bin Laden: http://www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,738196,00.html American Terrorism: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14016 Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=20262