X-Message-Number: 2039 From: (Thomas Donaldson) Subject: CRYONICS:COMMENTS Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 19:35:57 PST Hi! A few comments. 1. I was moved by the recent comments on Cryonet about radiation damage to look up Ettinger's original argument on this subject, which struck me at the time as entirely valid. After rereading it (it's in PROSPECT OF IMMORTALITY) my opinion has not changed. Basically, Ettinger does treat radiation damage as the result of an acute dose to the patient. He then takes standard figures for the background radiation levels to which we are all subject and does the arithmetic. An acute dose of 100 rems causes no noticeable sickness; an acute dose of 600 rems causes severe radiation sickness requiring hospitalization. His estimate (rough) of background radiation is 10 rems in 50 years (he does point out that this varies with location). This implies that patients would need to be stored for 500 years to get a 100 rem dose. For anyone unfamiliar with medical terminology, "acute" here means that the dose all occurs over a short period. That's why I say that he took into account the fact that cellular repair methods will not work in someone under storage. For those who question our vulnerability to radiation during storage, it seems to me that the only way to sustain their argument is to question the statistics above about radiation dose. Furthermore, radiation usually causes damage not by directly striking a critical cell part but by creating highly active chemical free radicals. These would be frozen in the ice and not go very far. Again, it's unreal to expect that if we can revive frozen patients we will have a hard time fix- ing any problems they may have due to radiation, including changes to their genes. Even for a neuro case, we have the DNA in a great many cells to use for recovery of the original DNA. 2. On capitalism, libertarianism, and cryonics: I agree that some jobs in cryonics can be better handled by contracting with companies which (as companies) aim mainly to produce profits. However just as with any other set of ideas, capitalism has its limits. The problems arise when the customer is not able, or not in a state to be able, to choose between providers. Such customers include children, the mentally ill, Alzheimer's patients, .... and cryonics patients being stored. While the actual physical job of storage can probably be given by contract to a company, the issues involved in choosing the storage facility and managing the patient's funds do not look easy to split off. I believe now, and would be surprised to hear a good contrary argument, that these issues require the formation of a cooperative, nonprofitmaking group: the cryonics society. Best and long life to all, Thomas Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2039