X-Message-Number: 20834 From: "John de Rivaz" <> References: <> Subject: Re: Funding by lease or loan Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 11:07:02 -0000 > From: > Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 12:44:38 EST > Subject: Re: CryoNet #20820 No Merci > Such case recall that some progress are must be done. That goes from > borderline new theoretical physics to basic cryonics. On that ground, I think > the next step is to overcome the cost wall. CI prices may be stable or > declining in real $ value, but there is nevertheless a problem. I think if > cryonics contracts could be bought with a credit or leasing the market would > be far larger and last minute problem as this one would be seen less often. Yvan's idea of funding by a separate lease or loan company is fine, provided the capital could be raised. But I suspect that most people in the cryonics community would want the capital to go somewhere else. They also want people to sign up whilst alive and in good health, in which case they can buy life insurance or start an investment scheme or a combination of the two. What Yvan proposes seems to be a company that provides unsecured loans and has a strong basis in property investment to make enough money to protect itself against defaulters. The regulatory overhead of such a company in the developed world would be prohibitive in relation to the size of the cryonics movement, which has only just achieved its 100th cryopreservation. It may be possible to situate it in some small country that doesn't have much of a regulatory system, but there the risks of losing it all in a political coup or simply to other unspecified organised crime are much higher. The difficulty a lot of people have with life insurance is that it is something you "pay into", ie it is a sink of money. If cryonics doesn't work for the individual concerned, it is a dead loss. An investment portfolio is also a sink of money, but it does offer the chance of getting something back. The individual could easily start an investment portfolio in trust and if it does well still be able to take some money out and have enough for his cryopreservation. Therefore even if cryonics doesn't work, the system isn't necessarily a dead loss. Indeed, the individual's involvement in cryonics could have instituted an investment habit which serves him well during his natural life regardless of whether his cryopreservation happens or is successful in resulting in a reanimation. The other possibility that might work as an alternative to life insurance is for someone to buy a property the value of which is somehow tied to paying for a cryopreservation, yet pay for the property by taking out a loan. The loan would require security, however, and this would have to be on another unencumbered asset. So one may as well tie that asset to the cryopreservation. Also, loans require a steady income -- self employed people or those whose steady income is from investments would either not qualify at all or be subject to substantially higher interest rates. Usually people in steady, establishment "nine to five" salaried jobs have no difficulty considering or buying life insurance. Unfortunately such people are also less likely to consider cryonics - they are too busy with the jobs and what little disposable time is left is insufficient to even evaluate cryonics. [The average commute time is over an hour each way, so for nine to five read eight to six, and then compulsory overtime is often becoming the norm rather than the exception.] Yvan is correct in that there is a need for the sort of product that he proposes. However this is something many of us have thought about -- look back to the 1980s in The Immortalist and you will see that I have written about such ideas a great length. However nothing came of it then and I suspect that nothing can be done now. -- Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, Holistics, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=20834