X-Message-Number: 20931
From: 
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:08:02 EST
Subject: Re: CryoNet #20917 Implicit assumptions

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From Robert Ettinger:

> 
> First, once more, on language: To assert that an electron here is the 
> "same" 
> as an electron there is simply to make up your own definitions of what 
> "sameness" means. In ordinary language, something that is elsewhere cannot 
> be 
> the "same," unless you carefully qualify this by saying "the same except 
> for 
> location, at least." One CAN distinguish between an electron here and an 
> electron there. Of course you are free to claim that your definition is 
> better, but that is just language or psychology, not physics.

Two particles with the same quantum numbers values are the same, this is 
physics. If in an experiment analysis you find that an object is defined by a 
set of quantum values and starting with other element you find the same 
values, then physics tell you that you have found the same particle using two 
different track to get here. To be sure, position coordinates are included in 
any exhaustive set of quantum values. So if you can separate objects on their 
different space coordinate value, they are not the same. Even if all other 
quantum values are the same.

What make quantum mechanics a lot special is that you can have two objects at 
time T0 and then entangle them so that you have one double object at time T1. 
If this entanglement include the space coordinate, what you have is one 
object at two place at the same time. This is not forbiden in classical 
physics, simply uncommon or not noticeable in everyday life on Earth.

The euclidean space allows only 6 dimensional phase space at a point and this 
permit gauge symetries only up to SU(3). That is why we have nuclear matter 
here. If you include entangled systems at two positions, there are 12 
dimensions in the phase space and gauge groups up to SU(6) are a possibility. 
Add more points and larger symetries enter into play. That expand enormously 
the thermodynamical entropy domain and may be  the ultimate aging cause and 
nature of time arrow.

Yvan Bozzonetti.

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