X-Message-Number: 21123 Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2003 05:40:48 -0800 From: James Swayze <> Subject: Red blood cells vs Respirocytes References: <> > Message #21107 > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 21:15:02 +1100 > From: Philip Rhoades <> > Subject: Re: biological organisms eating diamond > References: <> > > Henri, > > <snip> > > In terms of a total system, this is not likely to be true - I have had > some experience with virtual organisms and ones that have "evolved" > through "natural selection" routinely outclass human "designed" ones > for particular features. But even with "evolved" artifical designs you > are still probably being a bit optimistic about humans understanding > _everything_ about the most complex system in the universe (that we > know of) and designing artifical replacements for _all_ of the > different bits. eg you mentioned red blood cells and gas carrying > capacity but red blood cells do other things besides carry gas (eg they > act as "bricks" in clotting blood). To simply replace red blood cells > with a (much smaller?) artificial respirocyte might keep the gases > moving but you might bleed to death from millions of micro haemorrhages > that are occurring constantly. > > Message #21110 > Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 07:33:50 -0500 > From: Thomas Donaldson <> > Subject: CryoNet #21092 - #21100 > > For Mr. Kluytmans: > > <snip> > > As for red blood cells, they are more than bags of hemoglobin. They > also act to control blood viscosity, convert CO2 to bicarbonate, > and have their own metabolic system to do these functions. Their > flat shape gives a much larger surface for gas to diffuse in and > out of them. They also cause turbulence in the blood stream, which > helps them diffuse out oxygen and intake CO2. No, they have no > nucleus and are created in our marrow from other cells (do Freitas's > versions self-reproduce? How are they made?). > > If your nanomachines perform only one function, then you will have > to have many more to do the tasks of an enzyme. I would say the > same for devices which transport oxygen and remove CO2. And don't > come back at me saying that the other functions of red blood cells > would no longer be needed: unless you give me the complete > metabolism of the entire system you want to build with your > diamandoid nanosystems then you haven't established that even > Freitas's "blood cells" would really work when tried as a > substitute... or in a complete system. To those arguing red blood cells vs Respirocytes I think perhaps somewhere, and I don't know where, a misunderstanding has crept in. It is not my understanding that Frietas intends to competely replace red blood cells or in fact even replace _any_ red blood cells at all but rather it was my understanding he means to augment their oxygen/CO2 transfer capabilities only. This makes some arguments moot I do believe. Just my two cents. James -- Cryonics Institute of Michigan Member! The Immortalist Society Member! The Society for Venturism Member! MY WEBSITE: http://www.geocities.com/~davidpascal/swayze/ While there follow the links to photos of me and some of my artwork and a radio interview on Dr. J's ChangeSurfer Radio program with me and the father of cryonics Prof. Robert Ettinger, author of "The Prospect of Immortality". A RELIGION I actually recommend: http://www.venturist.org A FAVORITE quote: Last lines of the first Star Trek the Next Generation movie. Capt. Picard: "What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived, after all Number One, we're only mortal." Will Ryker: "Speak for yourself captain, I intend to live forever!" Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=21123