X-Message-Number: 21390
From: 
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 20:20:33 EST
Subject: symbolism

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Thomas Donaldson writes in part:

> And so far as you can build a machine which works like a brain
> rather than a computer, working not with symbols at all but
> with the world, then you can build a self-aware machine

I agree with Thomas that computers cannot feel (or at least that seems 
probable) and I agree with his reason, viz., that computers merely manipulate 
symbols. However, saying that is not enough, because the upmorphists 
(uploaders/isomorphists) will quickly point out that our brains also work 
with symbols or internal signals. Further, computers can and do work "with 
the world"--e.g. a computer controlling an oil refinery actually does or 
causes real things in the real external world. (The computer cannot feel, but 
it can be intelligent; the two things are very different.)

Thomas' previous point was much stronger--the simple fact that we will almost 
certainly learn the anatomy/physiology of feeling, and finally understand the 
physical basis of qualia. The basic weakness of the upmorphist position is 
that it is a strategy of surrender, of accepting permanent ignorance and 
helplessness. This is contrary to the whole spirit of modern science--even 
though some of the most modern, the quantum specialists, sometimes adopt this 
stance.

Robert Ettinger

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