X-Message-Number: 21530
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 10:22:32 -0500
From: "Raphael T. Haftka" <>
Subject: Vitrified organs

So what are the facts?


I copy a discussion below, where Charles Platt claims that his knowledge of the 
facts is irrelevant to the discussion with Bob Ettinger as to whether vitrified 
organs have been recovered from cold temperatures. It may be irrelevant to 
Charles Platt, but it is not irrelevant to most of us. Most of us are interested
in facts rather than in kindergarten type arguments on who, Charles Platt or 
Bob Ettinger, is more devious in their arguments.

If you know that it has been done, please let us know!  Please! Please!


Otherwise we have to assume that if it has been done, the perpetrator does not 
want to share the knowledge, which is strange since it would be a major 
accomplishment. In that case, the fact that it has been done is not relevant to 
me, because I do not have any knowledge of it and cannot rely on it in making 
decisions.

So please, let us have more facts and less arguments about debating styles!

Raphael Haftka

>Bob Ettinger's previous post stated that as of early this year (date
>unspecified), no vitrified organ has been recovered from a temperature as
>low as dry ice. I requested a reference for this statement. Here's his
>response:
>
>"Strange! As one of the head honchos of Alcor (the number two man now,
>apparently), with presumably close ties to the researchers, he ought to
>KNOW what the facts are. In any case, I have authoritative letters on
>file, and while confidentiality was not stipulated, it is obvious that
>public copying was not desired in the context of a Cryonet squabble. Aside
>from that, the information is NOT private or confidential, but was
>publicly disclosed at an Alcor meeting last fall, although it missed my
>notice at the time and apparently Platt's too."
>
>Points:
>
>1. My knowledge of the facts is irrelevant, since I made no statement of
>fact. I simply asked Ettinger to substantiate his categorical statements,
>because historically he has posted numerous messages here which contain
>"facts" that are not backed up with citations or elementary error
>checking, even though he could accomplish this in most cases with a single
>phone call. I asked if he had bothered to make such a phone call in this
>instance. Apparently the answer is "no."

.. 

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