X-Message-Number: 2158 Newsgroups: sci.cryonics From: (Timothy Freeman) Subject: Re: Flatliners? Message-ID: <> References: <> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 16:57:19 GMT In article <> (Peter Alexander Merel) writes: I was talking with a doctor friend of mine about cryonics, and the revivability of frozen folks, and he speculated that some important element of consciousness might be lost when electrical activity in the brain ceases. I have a relative who has been treated with electroshock. She lost about two weeks of memories, but so far as I can tell she isn't missing anything important that humanity in general isn't also missing. The conclusion I draw from this is that consciousness requires hardware that's working now and some reasonable set of memories, not continuous organized electrical brain activity. So I was wondering if anyone has done an EEG of one of these cold animals that have been successfully revived, and whether that EEG went flat or not? I'm presuming that none of the people who fell into frozen lakes and survived after prolonged periods without much metabolism were brainscanned before their revival. My understanding is that several groups (nearly frozen dogs, nearly drowned people in cold water, or people with barbiturate overdoses) can recover apparent normalcy after cessation of measurable EEG. I don't have a reference for this, and I would like to have one. If your doctor friend has the relevant expertise, ask him whether lack of measurable EEG is a good enough reason to give up on somebody who has had a barbiturate overdose. I like the fact that you're looking for evidence. But ultimately evidence is at best a hint. In past debates on this newsgroup (or was it sci.med?), somebody claimed that the nearly drowned person in cold water had brain waves that were too small to measure, but the suspendees obviously had no brain waves at all, so cryonics was obviously unworkable. From a scientific point of view, that person was advancing a hypothesis designed to be untestable; from a psychological point of view, all I can say is that where there's a will to believe, there's a way. Evidence may not help you convince your doctor friend, although making the attempt is probably worthwhile. -- Tim Freeman <> When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs. When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent. When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun. Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all. Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=2158