X-Message-Number: 2158
Newsgroups: sci.cryonics
From:  (Timothy Freeman)
Subject: Re: Flatliners?
Message-ID: <>
References: <>
Date: Sun, 25 Apr 1993 16:57:19 GMT


In article <>  (Peter 
Alexander Merel) writes:

   I was talking with a doctor friend of mine about cryonics, and the 
   revivability of frozen folks, and he speculated that some important
   element of consciousness might be lost when electrical activity in
   the brain ceases. 

I have a relative who has been treated with electroshock.  She lost
about two weeks of memories, but so far as I can tell she isn't
missing anything important that humanity in general isn't also
missing.  The conclusion I draw from this is that consciousness
requires hardware that's working now and some reasonable set of
memories, not continuous organized electrical brain activity.

   So I was wondering if anyone has done an EEG of one of these cold
   animals that have been successfully revived, and whether that EEG
   went flat or not? I'm presuming that none of the people who fell into
   frozen lakes and survived after prolonged periods without much 
   metabolism were brainscanned before their revival.

My understanding is that several groups (nearly frozen dogs, nearly
drowned people in cold water, or people with barbiturate overdoses)
can recover apparent normalcy after cessation of measurable EEG.  I
don't have a reference for this, and I would like to have one. 

If your doctor friend has the relevant expertise, ask him whether lack
of measurable EEG is a good enough reason to give up on somebody who
has had a barbiturate overdose.

I like the fact that you're looking for evidence.  But ultimately
evidence is at best a hint.  In past debates on this newsgroup (or was
it sci.med?), somebody claimed that the nearly drowned person in cold
water had brain waves that were too small to measure, but the
suspendees obviously had no brain waves at all, so cryonics was
obviously unworkable.  From a scientific point of view, that person
was advancing a hypothesis designed to be untestable; from a
psychological point of view, all I can say is that where there's a
will to believe, there's a way.  Evidence may not help you convince
your doctor friend, although making the attempt is probably worthwhile.
--
Tim Freeman <>    
When they took the fourth amendment, I was silent because I don't deal drugs.
When they took the sixth amendment, I kept quiet because I know I'm innocent.
When they took the second amendment, I said nothing because I don't own a gun.
Now they've come for the first amendment, and I can't say anything at all.

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