X-Message-Number: 21994
From: 
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 16:00:26 EDT
Subject: Re: CryoNet #21973 - #21982

In a message dated 6/15/03 2:00:56 AM,  writes:

<< Simon and Lomberg weren't trained in petroleum geology >>
Well now, Mark Plus, so is it that no one unless so trained can look at data 
and speak with any authority on such matters? What nonsense.  Does Deffeyes 
speak for everyone in petroleum geology? And, for that matter, is the 
"Association for the Study of Peak 
Oil" a disinterested party? Just from the name, I doubt it.  Even the oil 

companies have a vested interest in high oil prices and hyping future shortages

along with drilling everywhere for more.  The manifest fact is that the pre-tax
inflation-adjusted price of oil has been dropping steadily for nearly 80 
years as known reserves as well as production and consumption have been 

increasing.  Long predicted, no peak is even yet on the horizon unless you count
the 

infinitely riggable "models." As for the supposed "fossil" origins of petroleum,
I am just a casual lay reader on the subject, but from what I have read, the 
hypothesis is far from proven, partly because there seems to be so much oil in 
so many places around the globe that it casts in doubt the notion that it 

could all be geologically trapped animal residue.  The case for coal as a resdue
of decayed plants is obvious, of course.  We can argue ourselves blue on the 
subject of oil and other so-called "non-renewable" resources, but it should be 
obvious to cryonicists that if the doomsdayers are right, we are out of luck, 
because in the future world of scarcity and enveloping oceans that they 

imagine, nobody will allow funds to go into the energy-wasteful topping off of 
liquid 
nitrogen containers, let alone developing and sustaining an infrastructure to 
usher in the revival of anyone frozen now or in the future.
Kevin Spoering, Message #21976 From: "Spoering" <> 
Subject: In Defense Of Mark Plus, clearly has also been convinced of the same 

limits hypothesis in citing with admiration THE GREAT BUST AHEAD by Daniel 
Arnold, 
and THE RETIREMENT MYTH by Craig Karpel.  The market for this doomsday stuff 
is endless and the believers are in the millions.  Notice that the "bust" is 
always ahead.  Don't bother explaining why the world standard of living has 

risen substantially over the last century as the population has exploded, while

the quality of life in the developed world has advanced out of all comprehension
and in flat contradiction of doomsday models.  A standard response of our 
critics is that even to imagine cryonics is an obscene luxury while other 

millions around the globe are starving and dying, etc. and indeed it is!  They 
are 

right, it is a luxury along with a full refrigerator, air conditioned houses, a
car, a second car, a jet plane ride, lap tops, cable, internet access.  Where 
do we start, dear friends? What goes first?
 I respect the fact that many on this list, perhaps Mark Plus, included, are 
confirmed environmentalists.  Indeed, on many issues, I count myself in this 

number, but if you think our world is headed for disaster unless we drastically
limit consumption of practically every consumable item,  then your views are 
in direct contradiction of cryonics and you probably don't belong on this 

list.  I stand by my previous comments and strongly suggests those concerned 
with 
these issues to at least browse the contrarian references I cited.
Ron Havelock
President-elect, Washington Area Life Extension Society
CI Member

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