X-Message-Number: 22054
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:15:15 -0400
From: Thomas Donaldson <>
Subject: CryoNet #22041 - #22048

Hi everyone!

Some comments:
For Peter Merel and those such as Mike Price who disagree with him:

Both quantum theory and general relativity are plagued with infinities.
Not only that, but we have no physical theory which includes them
both.

If you're interested in this question, you might try reading Lee Smolin,
THREE ROADS TO QUANTUM GRAVITY, Basic Books. It's part of their Science
Masters series. Smolin basically discusses a combination of string
theory and quantum loop gravity which might solve these problems.
Basically it proposes that space-time itself exists in quanta --- very
small units, far smaller even than strings, but quanta still. And
no infinities (besides giving the seed of a theory which would include
both quantum theory and relativity).

For Steve Bridge:

Very good comments. I will add a little bit here. Basically humans are
animals and act like animals, modulo their much greater intelligence.
Animals can do altruistic things, such as risk their lives for their
children. But humans have still another kind of altruism, reciprocal
altruism, which basically says that if I do something for you now then
you will return the favor later. This requires time perspective and
intelligence that other creatures don't have, but always there is
self-interest behind it ("self" here, of course, is defined broadly;
parents sacrifice themselves for their children to promote survival
of their genes, which are their "selves" here --- including animal
parents too).

As a short note of just how this works, Arab suicide fighters have
their family rewarded by promoters of this conduct. But other far
more peaceful kinds of sacrifice also occur. That in one sense it
all comes from self-interest doesn't mean that the self-interest 
must be either short-sighted or limited. 
             
I mean this as an explication of Steve's comments, not a criticism of
them at all.

As for libertarianism or socialism, you get to work out whether
they really apply at all to human beings.

           Best wishes and long long life for all,

               Thomas Donaldson

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