X-Message-Number: 22054 Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 10:15:15 -0400 From: Thomas Donaldson <> Subject: CryoNet #22041 - #22048 Hi everyone! Some comments: For Peter Merel and those such as Mike Price who disagree with him: Both quantum theory and general relativity are plagued with infinities. Not only that, but we have no physical theory which includes them both. If you're interested in this question, you might try reading Lee Smolin, THREE ROADS TO QUANTUM GRAVITY, Basic Books. It's part of their Science Masters series. Smolin basically discusses a combination of string theory and quantum loop gravity which might solve these problems. Basically it proposes that space-time itself exists in quanta --- very small units, far smaller even than strings, but quanta still. And no infinities (besides giving the seed of a theory which would include both quantum theory and relativity). For Steve Bridge: Very good comments. I will add a little bit here. Basically humans are animals and act like animals, modulo their much greater intelligence. Animals can do altruistic things, such as risk their lives for their children. But humans have still another kind of altruism, reciprocal altruism, which basically says that if I do something for you now then you will return the favor later. This requires time perspective and intelligence that other creatures don't have, but always there is self-interest behind it ("self" here, of course, is defined broadly; parents sacrifice themselves for their children to promote survival of their genes, which are their "selves" here --- including animal parents too). As a short note of just how this works, Arab suicide fighters have their family rewarded by promoters of this conduct. But other far more peaceful kinds of sacrifice also occur. That in one sense it all comes from self-interest doesn't mean that the self-interest must be either short-sighted or limited. I mean this as an explication of Steve's comments, not a criticism of them at all. As for libertarianism or socialism, you get to work out whether they really apply at all to human beings. Best wishes and long long life for all, Thomas Donaldson Rate This Message: http://www.cryonet.org/cgi-bin/rate.cgi?msg=22054